From last night's LRT debate: Adam Vaughan does a great job explaining why transit planning has been screwed up for the past 30+ years.

delaware · 2012-02-10T13:52:49.161508+00:00

More people need to see this.

I think people also need to listen to Councillor Perruzza's speech.

ElfmanLV · 2012-02-10T13:01:29.214894+00:00

Lets modify the game a little bit. Suppose it is giving a child a candy now or if they wait there is a 50% change they will get 4 or 5 pieces and 50% chance they will get nothing. That is the option we have now. You can talk about how much better a subway is (I agree) but unless you have a reliable source of funding that is acceptable to the public, it is just wishful thinking.

In someways your analogy of a gunshot wound is appropriate. But what you are saying is like the gunshot victim is bleeding and you are saying, "Don't put the bandage to stop the bleeding! Let us wait till we reach the hospital and let the doctors deal with the problem because they know the best solution.". The problem is the victim might not survive to reach the hospital if we don't do anything.

deboosher · 2012-02-10T02:34:17.976850+00:00

In a way his lack of communication skills was what helped him get elected. I live in Scarborough and surprise, surprise ... there is a lot of support for him here including with immigrants. Some liberals like to explain that away as newcommers are just as homophobe as he is. The thing is, Ford also said some borderline racist/anti-immigrant stuff while campaigning and that only increased his support. It made him came across as someone genuine and not as another politician willing to say whatever you want to hear to get the vote.

deboosher · 2012-02-10T01:41:41.660260+00:00

I think the worst mistake we could make is think Rob Ford is an idiot. He is not a thinker but like Bush, he has the abillity to connect with people.

deboosher · 2012-02-10T01:17:10.740835+00:00

A valid point. The council had an option of choosing between providing excellent service to a small party of Toronto or providing good services to a larger part of Toronto. The council choose to provide the greatest good to the greatest number.

You might say this is short term thinking. I suggest that you take a look at the past. Take a look at when some of these transit ideas were proposed. Take a look at how many false starts and cancellions we have had. You will see that the 8.4 billion dollars we got is not a regular occurance. Ford's plan to bury the Eglington subway would have made it the most expensive infrastructure project in Canada and one of the most expensive in the world. Can we afford a series of such projects? The provincial and federal governmens are trying to balance their budgets, so highly unlikely they are willing to give us billions so that we could have a warm and toasty commute. Some people want to have referendum on whether to have a subway or not. I think it is more important to have one on how you are going to pay for it. Are you willing to have zone fares, higher ticket prices, higher property taxes, tolls on road, etc, etc to pay for all the subway? Once you build them, are you willing to spend more maintaining them until increases in ridership begain to cover some of the cost?

masteractor · 2012-02-09T20:50:31.595087+00:00

How ironic! According to his wiki page, Norm Kelly is a "trained historian" of Canadian history.

owookie · 1 day

Ah ... like our Mayor, another man of vision!

Franks2000inchTV · 1 day

Anyone have a source for his claim that the latest poll show 70 to 80% support for the subways? Mammoliti was making the same claim in the council.

Natural_RX · 2 days

They also take longer to build. In Scarborugh, the SRT is reaching the end of lifespan and is going to be retired after the Pan-American games in 2015. Under the Transit City plan, Eglinton and Sheppard LRTs would have been completed by then to provide alternatives. Under the Ford plan, they will need to wait until 2022 for the Eglinton "subway" to reach Scarborough Town Center.

Also, because underground stations are more expensive to build, fewer of them are built. LRT while slower above ground will have more stops than a subway. While considering total travel time, you have to factor in the fact that on average you will spend more time walking to a subway than to an LRT stop.

Not to mention that while you are in an LRT you will have something to look at. Street bueatification is usually part of LRT construction project.

Natural_RX · 2 days

Considering all the missed opportunities, you have a right to be frustrated with what we are settling for. But beyond Eglinton line, where is the plan and the funding for other subway lines that will make Toronto great? Before we even get to future lines, how is Rob Ford going to pay for extending the Sheppard line without without increasing taxes, tolls or Steven Harper getting a surprise visit from the Ghost of Christmas Future? We want subways, but we also don't want to pay for them. You can't have one or the other.

kadian · 3 days

I agree we should think long term and part of the problem is that we did not. If you are going to plan for the long term, you need have a detailed plan, how to pay for it, and the public behind you. Some people have suggested that every year, we put aside enough money to tunnel a few kilometers or open one subway station. It might not be much in the short term, but in the long term it will make a difference.

The problem with trying to convert the proposed LRT lines to subways is that they were planned to remedy our lack of foresight and to address current problems and in the near future. They won't have the ridership necessary for a subway, and all the money we would be spending on turning them into subways and maintaining them until they become useful could have been used elsewhere. The LRTs will provide practical public transit in the immediate future and subways will take longer to build.

If you want to think subways and long term, start with the Downtown Relief Line.

kadian · 3 days

Except Queen and King streetcars ride with the traffic, but the LRT will have its owns separate lanes.

The point is not to get people to switch from cars to public transit. The point is more people are going to be using our roads, and cars take up a lot of space. The gridlock is going to get worse, and the only option is an effective network of mass public transit. We cannot afford a network of subways, hence the LRT.

Natural_RX · 3 days

We can't have our apolitical public servants bold and honest when it suits our agenda and cautious when it does not. Being cautious with words is what Mr. Harper expects of Ministry of Environment's scientists.

roju · 4 days

Politicians pull shit like this because the electorate has short memories and do not hold politicians to account. I don't know if handing over billions of dollars to technocrats with "no political interference" (i.e. very limited oversight) will solve the problem, or just create another set of problems. What we need is an informed electorate willing to bring out the pitchfork and torches when necessary. Essentially what happened when Doug Ford tried to fuck up the waterfront.

roobix · 4 days

Even if it is to see his "ailing father"?

nataratat · 5 days

What you are saying is apprent in hindsight. Asking the union not to get the maximum possible concessions for their members is like asking the corporation not to make the maximum possible profit for their shareholders. Besides, when was the last time any of our organization whether they be union or business demonstrated any self-restraint or forward thinking? Perhaps, North America might still have a larger manufacturing base if we have had a different less adversial culture as they do in Germany: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-germany-middle-class-20120122,0,1551154,full.story

nataratat · 5 days

I don't think a rockstar or a basketball player "deserves" to get more than a doctor or a teacher, but that is what the market is willing to pay. Till now, these workers got what the market was willing to bear. You may feel smug that some bluecollar worker finally learned his rightful place. Perhaps, the uniqueness of working for the MoD entitles you to that smugness. But can that be said for the rest of us? What I do requires years of study and experience, but I know that there are people in places like India and Brazil that could do my job for 1/10th or less. They may not be as good as I am but it is only a matter of time. I know there are software that do what people believed only humans could do. They may not do everything I do, but one day there won't be a reason to have many people like me. So one day when one of us the so called creative white collar worker is called into the manager's office and told either we accept half of what we were paid (if we are lucky) or our job gets outsourced or replaced by a program, would we react any differently? Do any of us really "deserve" what we are paid? All I know is that that everytime someone loses their job due to globalization or technological innovation, the same process could one day to making me obsolete

masteractor · 7 days

Ford has simple solutions to complex solutions which are nothing more than soundbites. He has been super effective in convincing people because most people do not pay attention to local politics. The Transit City on the other hand is a compromise that tries to balance the requirements of several needs. You could simplify the message by saying "With Transit City, you get more bang for your buck", but it does not feel as concrete or sexy as "Subways are faster!". The only way to convince people the Transit City is a better option is if people are willing to take the time to explore the issue. The current fight is focused on the needs of Scarborough, and maybe the way to get them to stop in their tracks and look at alternatives is to remind them that with Ford's plan they will be no SRT or subway in Scarborough for 4 years! How is that for rapid transit?

worstcaseontario_ · 10 days

... and people wonder how Rob Ford got elected in the first place. I wish there was more intelligent arguments instead of the circlejerk of how fat or incompetent he is but I am glad that more people are paying attention to the city they live in. Toronto is a cool place to live in, and I want it to stay that way.

framk20 · 18 days

He is not the plaglarist, that is him claiming that someone else plagiarized him.

nomdeweb · 1 month

It is ironic that Sony is now on the other side.

NewPeoplesArmy · 1 month

Dude, the female migrant worker is one of their major export. You are totally ruining that.

NewPeoplesArmy · 1 month

What they have now in China, Mao was opposed to it when he was alive. It is not Maoism, but "Socialism with Chinese characteristics"

I_Touch_Rabbits · 1 month

Fermi paradox - Why is there no sign of intelligent life when the universe seems to be teaming with planets? If there are as many intelligent life as Drake equation predicts, what happened to them?

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TROPHY CASE

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TROPHY CASE

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