A question about Jesus' sacrifice...

Mysticbus · 2012-05-25T21:31:37.256139+00:00

I think my point of contention with Jesus' sacrifice is how does that even take our sin? Christians talk about sin as if it's a tangible thing. What mechanism could determine the morality of something and then attach itself to, presumably, the soul (which is a whole nother bag of worms)? And then further, get removed throughout spacetime because one guy died on a cross and went to chill with the lord of evil for a couple days.

And why is it that only believers would get to reap the benefits? Surely, an infinitely loving God would want to help people, even if they don't believe in him. I know that I've experienced a large amount of love (definitely not infinite :p) for people that I don't even know and I wouldn't deny them my services just because they think I don't exist, even if I can demonstrate it to them (which God seems unwilling to do).

I know you're probably not the best person to answer this, but I thought this was a good spot to voice my thoughts.

Mysticbus · 2012-05-25T21:25:15.528428+00:00

I always understood that crucifixion was actually pretty rare in that area. Sure, in older times and closer to Rome, they might do it, but not in Judea and not for blasphemy. I could very well be wrong though.

Mysticbus · 2012-05-25T21:23:57.899837+00:00

The way I understood it (or it was told to me as a child), it wasn't that Cain gave vegetables. That's all he had to give. But he gave what vegetables he had leftover after setting some aside for himself. Whereas Abel gave his youngest, plumpest lamb as a sacrifice. It was the nature of the sacrifice that mattered, not the contents. The message would be to give God your all, your best. Don't half ass your duty to your Lord.

tokerjoker11 · 2012-05-25T18:37:54.792740+00:00

I don't think the implication was of a revelation.

twitch0sparks · 2012-05-25T18:08:21.509335+00:00

That's an excellent point. I would argue that those kinds of things are largely random when compared to how things can go badly with distillation. Negligence might ruin a crop, but it probably wont kill the imbiber like with a badly distilled alcohol.

twitch0sparks · 2012-05-25T18:06:50.319875+00:00

And that's why you can do it with a license. It's not wholly dangerous (like working with asbestos :p ), but there are so many things that can go wrong with distillation that aren't immediately apparent to a layman. Like with beer, it's kinda hard to kill someone with beer. It might taste like shit, but you wont die. You can kill someone if you don't distill your alcohol properly.

Autodidact2 · 2012-05-25T16:48:02.278702+00:00

Ex Christian here. I was Christian up until about the end of high school. It was a very gradual process for me. It all started by learning about the way the world works. I can thank xkcd for that, for getting me interested in nerdy stuff outside programming. I think the biggest turning point for me, although I think I had already considered myself "agnostic" at the time, was Sagan's Cosmos. It really showed me how beautiful this world was and that it was possible for all of this to happen. Growing up I'd always known it was possible that God hadn't existed, but that definition of possible was a "well, there's a chance that God does not exist. This is faith base, ya know". But at this time, the meaning of "it's possible for God to not exist" turned into "there's a way for God to not exist".

From that, I sorta had a deist or pantheistic view of the world. There might be a creator or a god of the universe, but he isn't have an active role in our universe. Here is when I started adopting philosophies of Buddhism and spent a lot of time contemplating the nature of the universe and the nature of happiness. It was at this time that I discovered what "true love" is. The kind that you always hear Jesus talk about, but never see anyone practice. Whether it was from my half assed attempts at meditation (less focused style, more exploration style) or just the revelations I had while pondering, but I was the happiest I've ever been in my life. I wanted to show love to everybody and I was rarely ever down in my mood. It was also at this time that I developed empathy. I had never felt empathy before, but now I can simply look at a picture of a loving couple or read a story about a kitten and actually feel emotions. It was a new experience for me.

Since then, that "glow" of understanding and "oneness" with the world I felt has faded, but my happiness hasn't. My journey to atheism had allowed me to discover what happiness and love truly were, apart from a fiction that I hoped to be real. It allowed me to objectively view things, to hold opposing views in my head and not accept them. It allowed me to know more about the universe, and if that's not a noble cause, I don't know what is.

I now consider myself an anti-theist because I know that every good that comes from religion can happen without it. Sorta like the description of God in this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoiW4KO_Om4 the relevant part is about 4:45 in, but the preface gives context.

twitch0sparks · 2012-05-25T16:31:38.906941+00:00

Given the track record of cannabis users, I'd imagine the market for this would be much larger than a niche market.

twitch0sparks · 2012-05-25T16:31:04.999893+00:00

Distilling alcohol is illegal because it's legitimately dangerous. Stills are very likely to explode, especially when improperly done, like a novice would. Great care is taken at distillation factories to prevent injuries.

pear_tree_gifting · 2012-05-25T16:14:57.075991+00:00

One could argue that violates free will, which is apparently very important to God.

mehgandavid · 2012-05-25T16:12:26.151407+00:00

Oh, I agree that video game ads suck, especially if you've paid for the game. But I see no problem with games that are free that have ads.

But at what point do you consider a machine "ad-mongering"? I would argue that ads are not "horrible, horrible ideas" as you say, but rather a great way to make products free.

mehgandavid · 2012-05-25T15:35:28.628896+00:00

He says on a website made free by ads.

Eyulfable · 2012-05-25T12:34:45.964720+00:00

I don't think I'm under any obligation to treat a gift correctly. Sure, it may be rude to the person who gave it to me, but it doesn't seem like my mother cares.

Pleasing the flesh and living a righteous life (what's that entail exactly?) are probably not mutually exclusive. So you're saying that because I spent time enjoying nice ice cream sundaes, I'm not able to be righteous?

majortato · 2012-05-25T03:07:51.324552+00:00

Monocular vision for the lose :(

JonLuca · 2012-05-24T16:26:36.244283-07:00

It is.

Also, it's a reference to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_World_Out_of_Time

snood1205 · 2012-05-24T23:24:31.006921+00:00

Precisely. I'll show every person respect until they, individually, do something that would take that away. They might do so because of their religion, but I'm not going to judge them before they provide something to judge.

snood1205 · 2012-05-24T23:22:15.239571+00:00

I would argue that it isn't the uncertainty that matters, but certainty. Science teaches us to not be certain, to always try to find a way to break a model. Don't believe the science? Do the experiment yourself to see. Conversely, religion teaches us to be ok at accepting a truth as truth.

snood1205 · 2012-05-24T23:19:17.846116+00:00

Rarely do I run into Jews who take their Jewiness seriously who I don't respect for their commitedness to truth and wisdom.

JonLuca · 2012-05-24T23:08:59.651352+00:00

Even better: We move earth into Jupiter's orbit.

SJBradleyNY · 2012-05-24T16:00:20.892336-07:00

So basically dubstep isn't dubstep?

crimson_chang · 2012-05-24T22:56:16.896425+00:00

The dance is what gets me.

pierre_escargot12 · 2012-05-24T15:55:01.566217-07:00

You realize you're talking to a robot right? You're telling it to commit suicide. How could you?!

jmelol · 1 day

I suppose that's a good point. Kinda like how modern art is "good". It is because people are willing to pay for it. We consider good music good because it sounds good to our ears.

But, the mathematician in me thinks that there must be a definition for it. I mean, we have music theory. You have this section of notes, this other section will sound good. Circle of fifths, etc.

yukizora · 1 day

I really wish it was that easy as a guy.

kondrat1983 · 1 day

And also very very slippery when not.

Kowzorz

TROPHY CASE

Kowzorz

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