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[–]Vikingblood 18 points19 points ago

Or perhaps you could take personal responsibility for last summer's clarity. Don't think of collapse or societal strife as a whole. It's a big idea, with a lot of moving parts. I liken it to trying to eat a 4 course meal in one bite; it's impossible and doesn't engender good feelings towards the meal.

When all of this hit me, I had already been looking at smaller ideas (oil, weather, resources, economic, etc) but never put it all together. I didn't have a physical reaction, rather, the epiphany caused my mind to explode with myriad questions. Instead of feeling dejected at the new information, I used it to better myself: gather information, gather resources, make short term plans, get into shape, etc. I used my newly minted mind frame to make informed decisions about my future.

The other thing I started to do, to help with the burgeoning information I was exposing myself to, was to show my friends, their friends, etc. This is the depressing part. No one wants anything to do with it and compounding the problem is the general population's stereotypical pigeonholing of the people who "prep". I don't see myself as a prepper even though it's what I do everyday. Out of the twenty or so people I've talked to, only ONE has taken any interest. This kills me because I can only look down on all my friends now. They don't care because they have video games, cars, women, money; this doesn't impact TODAY so what do they care? I know that the only reason they listened to me in the first place is because of me, not the information. The best part, is when I talk to them about recent gun purchases or future planning, as if in unison, they're reply is "... yeah man, when the shit goes down, I'm headed your way man." Riiiiiiiiight.

You need to immerse yourself in the human condition. Our history is not recliners, internet and delivery pizza. We first worlders have a problem with our entitlements, as if we are guaranteed them. Pro tip: They aren't. The sooner you understand the real value of the things we use on a daily basis; the sooner you understand the resources for our human and societal survival are diminishing at an astonishing rate; the sooner you understand the natural carrying capacity for your geographic location; the sooner you frame your understanding of your life and world in the context of reality is the sooner you feel better about it. At least to the extent that you can do something about it.

Honestly, the best thing to do, you've already done. You've accepted, to some extent, that our way of life is flawed. Organically shift through information that interests you. Don't look for answers to your questions in a 1:1 sense, rather, look for answers that beget more questions. Look at the optimistic side of things to see if their analysis holds water. If you listen to NPR, listen to FOX news.

You aren't taking it seriously enough. Challenge yourself.

[–]betterthanthee 3 points4 points ago

Serious question: If the fit shits the han, and all those lazy people do turn up at your door... what would you do?

[–]Vikingblood 4 points5 points ago

I've thought about it at length actually. While I am still juggling what I intend to do about it, I've decided that if it happened some time this year, I will welcome as many friends and family as possible, with no judgement. However, as my short-term plans come to fruition, I can see myself moving away from this and selecting only those who show determination for survival and life.

It really has nothing to do with hoarding or proving a point. I want my friends and family to live. I want them to enjoy their lives. However, when some of them actively rebuke and troll me for my mindset towards the world, I can't help but smile thinking of them needing me. I don't relish it and I am conscious about not feeding off of it. But it's there.

My goal is a harmonious transition from this paradigm to the next with as many friends, family and passers-by as I can feed and house. With help, I can definitely meet these goals, but getting the gumption out of people for forward, positive movement has been lacking, to say the least. I also know that as these world problems build momentum, more of my friends and family will wake up, but; and this is the problem: our time tables are way out of sync. I want to see the people whom I hold in esteem, step the fuck up. I'm still waiting.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 1 point2 points ago

I want them to enjoy their lives. However, when some of them actively rebuke and troll me for my mindset towards the world,

Does your family really do this?

Mine sometimes has the tone of someone who (lovingly) teases, but not about collapse just my near-obsessive personality (which probably deserves such). If anything, I think my grandparents are slightly proud and flattered of my intent to become a farmer. Same with the rest of my family, even my in-laws.

[–]Vikingblood 1 point2 points ago

My family is my wife and dog right now. They are both on board. It's mostly my friends and extended family. Both my parents get it but feel that the issue is too big, so just live and love life. I totally understand this sentiment, I lived it for 95% of my life. However, getting anyone to move past the acknowledgement phase and into the doing phase seems to be the hurdle that they can't get past. My brother and sister get it as well, but seem withdrawn when it comes to action.

My friends range from "Yeah, man, keep me updated. Lemme know when you're going to the gun show next." to "Fuck a lot of this Mad Max talk and lets get crushed bro." I love my friends but am finding myself withdrawn from the minutiae of what is fast becoming my past self.

The way I see it, for myself, is that I am Batman who has to put on my Bruce Wayne for work and play. How long I can contain the Batman within, who knows, but I consciously try to let people who I care about or see me on a daily basis only see the Bruce Wayne.

[–]Phunkapotamus 0 points1 point ago

Holy crap... "Batman". That about sums up my life.

[–]lazerguidedawesomeQui audet adipiscitur 0 points1 point ago

That's right on the money mate. I have been through a lot of introspection before realizing that I'm not crazy and if you look at what is happening just within America alone, they have no idea. None. The people who have been pushing us around for the last century or so have finally taken all their greed and selfishness too far. Thank sweet baby Jesus for the internet, now we can communicate with each other and share our ideas on a scale never seen before. I've finally got my wife to see the truth as well, took a while I can tell ya but now we can discuss it in a rational manner and not get cross with each other. It came to the point of me saying to her that our relationship was at stake, that was an AWFUL conversation but now she's insisting on 3 months food, not 1 month! Taking her to the only shooting range in Manhattan in two weeks time. I like to think of myself as the Punisher, cos I live in Brooklyn and he's my favorite comic book character. At the end of the day all the crap that's discussed here is already someone else's reality. People in South East Asia and Africa live under the daily threat of death from either the current freedom fighters or the government itself. I love the fact that being responsible for your family and friends safety is looked upon as wacky these days. When did that happen?? I guess human beings are that arrogant/stupid. Look after yourselves people, the Gov won't.

[–]edheler 16 points17 points ago

You're not taking it too seriously. You're taking it too personally.

[–]Capissen38 27 points28 points ago

I still look forward to the future, because I'm adept at making the best of things. Being 28 and not having a family helps, too. To paraphrase Bruce Sterling, "The future won't be good, or bad. The future will feel weird." He coined a phrase, 'dark euphoria,' that I think captures my feelings about the future nicely.

[–]Kryten_2X4B_523P 10 points11 points ago

"dark euphoria"

jesus christ, ive been sitting here for a couple minutes shaking my head at how hard that phrase hits home for me.

thanks for sharing this.

[–]syuk 3 points4 points ago

What does it mean?

[–]Capissen38 11 points12 points ago

Everything's going to hell, but hey!, you have a wicked fast internet connection.

[–]Kit_Emmuorto 1 point2 points ago

And now the image of a man watching it end on live streaming is somehow stuck into my mind

[–]Shotgun_Mosquito 2 points3 points ago

And no more bills to pay!

[–]sassy19 0 points1 point ago

I would rather have bills to pay than fight for food and not knowing if my family and I will live to see another day.

[–]Capissen38 0 points1 point ago

Hah, I was going to link you to that talk, but I see you've found it on your own. :-) That talk changed my life, if only in subtle ways.

[–]robotrossy 1 point2 points ago

what talk? link it.

[–]greengordon 6 points7 points ago

At 50 and with a family and knowing too much about how the world works, I'm not so euphoric. I have come to realise that that a) there is a lot of chance in our lives - we're not nearly as 'self-made' as we like to think we are - and b) bad people end up on top.

Think about that last point in a declining civilisation.

[–]zachm 11 points12 points ago

You're getting hung up on the idea that "collapse" is some event that will take place at some point in the future, and that on one side of that event will be "civilization" and the other side will be "chaos." Easy to see how you could get that idea, since a substantial portion of this reddit subscribes to it.

There's another way of looking at collapse, which is that it's a process that we're in the middle of and which will take decades to play out. Not much cannibalism in this narrative, just a long, slow worsening of standard of livings. The world will change, and some people will die; but that doesn't make it the end of the world.

John Michael Greer has a great perspective on the topic:

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2012/01/waiting-for-great-pumpkin.html

Read his blog and do some deep breathing exercises. Everything is going to be fine... for reduced values of "fine" relative to current levels.

Another helpful resource is Chris Martenson, who points out that the biggest problem with collapse as we're living it today is that our monetary system won't acknowledge it's happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WBiTnBwSWc#t=15m48s

Good luck coming to grips with all of this!

[–]SMTRodentSlow, gradual collapse, already happening. 3 points4 points ago

Yeah, it's been clear to me for a long while now that we're in collapse.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 0 points1 point ago

There's another way of looking at collapse, which is that it's a process that we're in the middle of and which will take decades to play out.

Historians hundreds of years from now might certainly perceive it that way, and they might even be technically correct.

But for the people who get to live this, I have a feeling that it might just look alot like the other description to them, and that they won't be exaggerating things when they perceive it that way.

[–]betterthanthee 0 points1 point ago

Painful to watch that video knowing that most of the people in attendance probably didn't understand a quarter of what he said.

[–]SatOnMyNutsAgain 40 points41 points ago

You are taking it like a healthy sane person should. Allowing this realization to enter your psyche, instead of fighting it, should feel like the death of someone very close to you. You are grieving the loss of the entire paradigm under which well all have lived until now.

This shift will happen... it could start happening very fast at some point here, and all the people who are unaware, or still in the denial phase, will be shocked to their core. They will not survive.

By picturing all this in your mind you are horrifying yourself, but at the same time you a putting your mind through a process of training that will prepare you for that reality. Myself, I have horribly disturbing dreams. I wake up each morning in shock at what I have seen in my sleep. But this is how we train ourselves to be able to respond to these things when they happen.

Besides having some canned food, when the time comes you will not be shocked emotionally, because you have already seen this all in your mind's eye. You will not panic - you will survive. You will have the privilege of experiencing the post-carbon paradigm of peace and freedom.

[–]mrjderp 2 points3 points ago

I don't know about this guy, but I can't think straight when I sit on my nuts.

[–]reddelicious77 1 point2 points ago*

so, you're saying one must essentially desensitize one's self to the impending horror/despair that we're all about to experience?

(ie- watch documentaries on people trying to survive in 3rd world countries, or - for me - watch movies like The Road. Wow, that was powerful.)

I tend to agree, we do have to desensitize ourselves, but I'd also like to add, we have to remember our humanity. Not only will we experience horrific things when/if this catastrophic collapse occurs, it will also mean we'll be pressed to show our greatest humanity (empathy/sympathy) for the suffering and less-fortunate.

[–]mantra 2 points3 points ago

If "grieving" == "desensitization", sure.

Do you still become paralyzed at the though of a loved one who has died? Probably not - you adjust. Is that desensitization? Only in a twisted sense. If you responded with the same passion to all situation over time in the same way, you and civilization would have been dead a long time ago. That wouldn't be normal or survivable.

[–]growth_kills_natureall institutions will fail in rapid succession 2 points3 points ago

This. It's horrible to think about, but it's better to think about it now, before it happens, than as it's happening. That will lead to panic for sure. If you are prepared and have a plan, then it's not only possible to survive, but to help other people (to a very limited extent).

[–]mjrice -1 points0 points ago

| You are taking it like a healthy sane person should

i.e. not at all in the spirit of /collapse.

| This shift will happen...

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[–]alllie 26 points27 points ago

I did my grieving over the end of American democracy, which began with the stealing of the election in 2000 and has continued since then. I think the wealthy and powerful are trying to set things up for after the collapse, to make sure this is a tight police state that can keep the population under control even as they starve and die, even as they are forced to brute labor in their fields, even as they become literal slaves. I think the engineered end of democracy is just a response by the wealthy to the coming collapse.

[–]growth_kills_natureall institutions will fail in rapid succession 2 points3 points ago

They have definitely been preparing for collapse for a while, but they can't win in the long term. A lot of Americans have guns. They will fight back.

[–]tw0str0ke 6 points7 points ago

Some of the people here are a little rough, some are the reason we have these problems, some are excited for the opportunity to shoot a human without facing consequences.

But there are people like me who understand that love and compassion are the key to our happiness and I don't want to see anyone's blood shed for our own ignorance.

I had a shock period, which led to all out rejection for about a year. Then I watched a really thought provoking documentary on peak oil, which if nothing else is a reality. So we need to prepare for this, we need to be self sufficient. We need to look after ourself, that is the only reason I come to this sub reddit. I want to learn to look after myself.

My major panic is to keep my eye on the news so that if thing's do start to go down the shitter fast I can get on the first flight home, I'm living in London UK just for some overseas experience and don't want to get stranded here in the event of some catastrophe. I'm so fortunate to be from New Zealand where I can be free no matter the circumstance. The population density and freedom to do as I wish there empowers me with a positivity. But there are bad people anywhere in the world.

I don't know what I'm rambling on about, but maybe this can help?

[–]auchris 25 points26 points ago

You're probably taking it too seriously. I had a few months of panic too where I thought the end was nigh and I saw how woefully unprepared I was.

I've since realized how naive and childish this is. Nobody can predict the future with any degree of clarity, so worrying about it needlessly does nothing but stress you out.

The solution? Don't just horde stuff and buy PMs and guns (although you can do those things too), but take action. Join a CSA and try your hand at working in sustainable agriculture. Join or start community organizations in your neighborhood, work, or church. Give away some of your consumer frippery and embrace a simpler lifestyle. Walk more, drive less. Teach your kids to fish.

Don't give in to the doom and gloomers here. Many are just hoping that the world collapses around them so that they'll be able to toss aside the person they are now for some imagined heroic alter-ego. Others are just alarmist.

[–]Jiffy_Squid[S] 20 points21 points ago

That's what I'm wondering too. How many people here just hate their current state of existence and want to start over... so much that the whole collapse scenario is a wish-fulfillment fantasy. I think some here would be genuinely disappointed if the crisis proved to be less severe.

[–]tamrix 20 points21 points ago

I'm sick of being a wage slave stuck in a competitive social hierarchy where profit trumps humanity and everyone's to greedy to give a shit.

Of course we can solve these problems without collapse but I believe most of the time we've had to do that is now gone. I consider whatever is coming to be a wake up call and if we eliminate our competitiveness, social hierarchy, profit over humanity and greed then many many more will survive and we will be better planet for it.

[–]growth_kills_natureall institutions will fail in rapid succession 18 points19 points ago

Well said. I'm tired of people accusing people who will be glad to see the current system go of being sociopaths. Civilization has harmed all of Earths inhabitants, but some humans have benefited. We have consumed the planet's resources and given nothing back. Now 90% of the big fish in the ocean, 97% of the forests, and 98% of the native grasslands gone. 200 species go extinct a day. That is why I want collapse to happen. I am not the sociopath. Civilization is.

[–]betterthanthee 1 point2 points ago

I got crucified on r/frugal for saying that I hoped for a more severe recession. I even listed all the reasons why (people would become less wasteful, more frugal, more interdependent, greater sense of community). At no point did I express a wish for human suffering, nor do I have such a wish. Of course suffering would occur but it happens now anyway, and continued "economic growth" like we've been seeing for centuries will end up causing much more suffering in the future.

But yeah... I got called every awful name in the book. In r/frugal.

[–]betterthanthee2 1 point2 points ago

end your life painfully

[–]Fwob 1 point2 points ago

Cites?

[–]growth_kills_natureall institutions will fail in rapid succession 0 points1 point ago

I have read this from multiple sources. Here's one, and two

[–]mizztanya 1 point2 points ago

activists throwing out statistics without citing any sources is meaningless.

[–]mizztanya -2 points-1 points ago

i disagree with all of your points. we do give back to the planet as we live in a closed system, things don't escape into space. we have waste, when treated properly is good fertilizer, and when we die and are buried, trees benefit from the calcium. your percentages of things are just silly. how do you know 90% of the fish are gone, how can any study know such a thing when the planet is predominantly water? how many times a year are species believed to be extinct getting pictured? the gulf of mexico has gone from being called a dead zone to the oil spill that murdered life back to a dead zone, yet the ocean life is doing just fine because oil always leaks into the gulf naturally. there are more trees now than 100 years ago, rather it is old forest or new forest, i don't really think the planet cares. and finally, native grasslands...seriously? you weep for loss of some species of grass? there's no shortage of grass anywhere. you want society to collapse because of the loss of grass and you say you AREN'T a sociopath? ya, ok pal.

[–]growth_kills_natureall institutions will fail in rapid succession 1 point2 points ago

Wow. You're delusional. I'm not even going to answer your questions. Do you actually believe the Gulf of Mexico is OK now?

when we die and are buried, trees benefit from the calcium.

This was probably the most ridiculous. Do the trees enjoy the formaldehyde also?

[–]lazerguidedawesomeQui audet adipiscitur 0 points1 point ago

Ignore him. THIS is the type of thinking that got us here in the first place. Change IS coming weather its calm and ordered or weather its loud and terrifying is entirely up us. I think we know which one it is.....

[–]mizztanya -1 points0 points ago

the gulf shrimping industry is doing quite well. as is crabbing and fishing. are you not aware that there are naturally occurring vents on the bottom of the gulf that always leak oil? have you ever even been to the gulf? i have, it's where i live, and by the way, it's huge. as for the calcium and trees, how about you look it up? calcium is very good for trees and as to the formaldehyde being used, you actually think the amount used is toxic to the environment? then why aren't cemeteries considered toxic land? ashes to ashes, dust to dust, my friend. learn to think logically instead of just reacting emotionally while insulting, you might learn a thing or two.

[–]Elrox 2 points3 points ago

What makes you think that things will be better after the collapse? People that have stockpiled the most money will still be winning, the same assholes that run things now will be running them then too. Positions of power attract sociopaths, always have.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

That's not true. Good people that have healthy relationships with others, that are contributing to and live in strong supportive communities will be the ones who will come out best from this crisis. The sociopaths will suffer the most from the collapse of the system - that is why they are fighting tooth and nail to maintain the current system.

[–]Elrox 4 points5 points ago

They might suffer but they wont suffer the most. If you think they are blind to whats coming you are fooling yourself, they will have more food and drugs stockpiled in a safer place than you or I can compete with and an armed security force to do their bidding. Healthy communities will still be steamrolled by power hungry assholes with tanks and guns, the only difference is that there will be no news to report on it anymore and no police to stop them.

[–]QueueNX 4 points5 points ago

That's what I'm wondering too. How many people here just hate their current state of existence and want to start over...

Those that wish for such things aren't thinking clearly and need to really fix their own failings in life - mainly their attitudes - to live a more fulfilling existence.

so much that the whole collapse scenario is a wish-fulfillment fantasy. I think some here would be genuinely disappointed if the crisis proved to be less severe.

for many people it's already happened. jobs went over seas, entire companies go bankrupt, they can't afford food let alone the home or apartment they live in anymore, govt unjustly dishing out their own version of "justice"... I've seen some things people couldn't believe... or maybe they would here on this sub.

Either way, don't freak out about it. If you're really intent on becoming more prepared buy a little extra every week as you can afford it for groceries. Make a rotating stock, placing the new stuff at the back of the shelf and using the older foods. Use a sharpie to date cans, bags, jugs etc so you know how long ago it was purchased. (I go by month/year after realizing the day of the month was just too tedious). Store what you eat and eat what you store. Don't go crazy with 1000x of MRE's or some other kind of rations that will only serve to drive you crazy and give you a wicked case of the runs b/c it changes your diet so drastically.

If you own a home or have a basement that's solely your own in a duplex (I've seen them split!) keep it down there as it will provide more of a temperature regulated place in the warm weather so it lasts longer. If all you have is an apartment, get creative! My siblings used the under side of their bed, spots at the back of certain closets, and even going as far as the space inside the large coffee table their guests sit around. And they don't even know what's there!

Word to the wise regarding firearms. Stay within your current locations laws, or if you're daring buy them legally elsewhere (private sales are legal in many states) and keep them hidden but ready. Avoid gun registrations, registries or buying them from stores where they do a background check b/c that stuff does get logged.

Again, I'm not advocating you break the law but if you feel so inclined please for the love of all you hold dear stay safe, practice often and safely, and keep your mouth shut!

In fact keep your mouth shut to EVERYONE unless you can absolutely trust them.

This was more of a rant than I anticipated, sorry about that.

tl;dr - just read the damn thing, it's worth your time.

[–]betterthanthee 0 points1 point ago

I thought background checks had to be done on every person buying a gun in the US??

[–]QueueNX 1 point2 points ago

Nope. This is a myth. In many states I can purchase a firearm in a private sale and nothing more than cash is exchanged. Even NY.

[–]betterthanthee 0 points1 point ago

I don't like the idea of Big Brother knowing who's armed with what, but no restrictions on gun sales does make me quite nervous.

[–]QueueNX 0 points1 point ago

Neither do I, which is why I always buy in private sales.

zero paperwork; they've got nothing but tax records on me.

[–]betterthanthee2 0 points1 point ago

Planning on shooting up some schools? I'll be sure to alert the authorities in Wayne County.

[–]subdep 0 points1 point ago

If anyone's existence sucks in this world, it's going to double suck after TSHTF. This is the easy time. This is the time to prepare.

Watch the movie "The Road". If that doesn't give one the proper perspective that we have it good now and to prepare, then nothing will.

[–]mwguthrie 3 points4 points ago

Teaching your kids to fish is something every parent should do, regardless of some impending "collapse."

Spending time with your kids and teaching them to tie knots and stuff is just awesome, and fishing is a great catalyst for such things.

[–]Danweiser 1 point2 points ago

I like the cut of your jib...but I do sometimes feel like the shit is going to hit the fan one day...

[–]Will_Power 0 points1 point ago

Many are just hoping that the world collapses around them so that they'll be able to toss aside the person they are now for some imagined heroic alter-ego. Others are just alarmist.

Your comment is right on, but the part I've quoted is especially insightful.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 1 point2 points ago

I've never understood that mindset myself, not really. How does one actually hope for something like that?

[–]mijamala1 8 points9 points ago

I'm on board with you. I just hate when I'm talking about it with other people, and when they admit it sounds bad they just change the subject.

No I don't berate people with it :) And yes I'm fun at parties.

[–]growth_kills_natureall institutions will fail in rapid succession 0 points1 point ago

Haha, talking about collapse at parties? You sound like a bad ass.

[–]mijamala1 1 point2 points ago

Just deflecting a common phrase I see on Reddit. But actually yea I've brought up the collapse with people at social gatherings. Usually ends up with a more "deer in the headlights" kind of look.

[–]aspectt 8 points9 points ago

As I am at a point where I would like to change my job, but feel as though it would be better to make the garunteed money while I can so I can further prepare. I am frequently depressed by the world around me. It feels sometimes like the more i learn about the world, the darker things become, as I grow older and understand more and more of my own existence. When I was a kid the worst thing was sitting on the steps for time-out. Slowly the awareness of my own impact spread, until I realized that impact was minuscule in comparison to greater things, to the way society sways. I am a single vote amongst millions.

Confronted with the truth of the limitedness of natural resources, and seeing the interdependency of it all, I began to question my life and career choices. I look around to all those around me whom I care about, those who I interact with on a daily basis who don't see the same thing. Frequently feel like I'm overreacting, that confirmation bias, the blogs I read and the information I see are all leading me down a foolish path. I hear those I choose to confide my fears in infer that I'm crazy, and I go back and analyze it but no matter how I write it, the equation's result seems to be the same. I can only see a culling coming in my lifetime, and I'm struck by how much I just don't have time or money to pursue. In these moments I wonder if I'm ever going to allow myself to have children, if I'll ever have time to find someone I love enough for that.

So frequently I feel like I'm just so far behind where I should be, that I should be doing more personally, and more socially. In the same way that I mourned my grandma as she faded slowly over the last four years before passing a few months back, I mourn my own future, and the futures of those around me. I have dreams where I find some solution to the energy crisis that delivers humanity a second wind, but then awake to see corruption, corporate influence, and ignorance all around, and reality hits me like a bucket of ice water. I would rather sleep.

I consider all those that I have met, who have their own goals, wants, and futures to consider and I realize that they may never achieve them. Its like being on a party boat that is inexorably headed for a waterfall. It most certainly depresses me, this dark future that awaits. In these moments, the focus of my attention, of what I hold close and dear to myself becomes sharper. If you knew your house was burning down in 10 minutes you would immediately know what things you would want to evacuate, and which things are unimportant. In the same way I am more intimately aware of what things I need, for my survival, emotionally, mentally, physically. In the last two years I have transformed into someone entirely different. More assertive, more confident, and more focused, and in short, better.

I am comforted by the knowledge that yes I do want to survive. I am not done here, I have been gifted this short period of consciousness and existence, this one body, this one life, and I fully intend to make the most of it. I am strengthened by the knowledge that I glean from research and practice. I steel myself and know that I am stronger, and more secure because of it. I am comforted by the knowledge that when things inevitably decline, be it tomorrow or in the next 50 years, I will have the knowledge, skills, and knowhow to lead those I love to survival, to their own life goals, and in doing so achieve my own.

It is a challenge that one can only rise to, or fall in despair. You question if you're taking things too seriously, I'm there with you. But I can't help but also ask if it is merely those around you not taking things seriously enough, and that inborn desire in all of us to be like others is creeping through your own thought process. This part of me speaks, but the voice of experience and reason tends to talk louder and more clearly. I have been in several situations where what I've become in my process of awakening have paid off, to the benefit of others beyond myself. I help others by helping myself first, and passing what I've learned on, be it in times of tranquility or in times of strife.

[–]FractalDude 4 points5 points ago

I've known everything was going to collapse and change very young. However, the seriousness of the economic collapse hit me when I first saw Zeitgeist 2 a few years ago. I also attended occupy wall street and now I practically everyday have another wave of sadness when I think about where our entire world is headed.

Read the Anti-American manifesto and watch Zeitgeist 2 and 3. You can watch them for free online.

You're not taking this too seriously. Not in the slightest. I'd say learn to grow your own food. Have at least a rough plan. My plan is to in the next year visit various self-sustaining communes in the United States to learn the skills I am going to need. Even if the collapse is not as bad as I believe it is going to be it can't hurt to prepared.

Its not just the food its the fact we have nearly no say in the matter and we're getting arrested for standing up for our rights. I've been to various occupations across the US and I've seen and hurt about much of rights being violated. I feel the seriousness of this every single day.

If you start to feel really stressed remember you are not alone. Feel free to PM me.

[–]Bbaily 4 points5 points ago

People here are too worried about their immediate future to do anything about coming events. They also have complete faith that their Government will save them and would never let something like this happen. It's just unthinkable.

In spite of all the most current events and mathematical evaluations pointing to a huge collapse, it's unacceptable to some people and quite a few will still call you a nutter if you mention it.

Reddit isn't what it used to be. Pockets of inspiring, clear thinking, informative, creative, sexy people still exist in subs but over all it's turned into a more agile Facebook. The denial and hubris at Reddit is stunning at times.

I've been watching it happen slowly over the years so I haven't been as surprised as some. The thing that I felt people were missing over the years was the change in the laws, they started favoring large institutions and corps. Then as time went on people started losing more of their rights and can no longer really defend themselves anymore.

When the laws of the land no longer apply to those running the country and only to it's "Subjects" must follow them, you have some really serious issues developing. Not surprisingly these same issues are happening all over the world right now.

I honestly don't think people understand they are being attacked by their own government. Sooner then later they will wake up - probably too late to do anything.

[–]emperorpotatoketchup 1 point2 points ago

Look to the past for a glimpse of what the future may look like. What happened during the Nazi era? Did the populace "wake up?" Hardly. The woken up people simply left and the vast majority of the populace went along. The shame of not belonging frequently trumps almost every other shame. That's the nature of the herd and that is why I believe that a collapse is coming.

A collapse is not the end of the world. It could be for some people but not for most. It's like a tornado that hits a town. Most of the people are fine, some are dead, but the entire community has to adjust and rebuild. I think about the 3 little pigs. I want all of my houses built of stone - physical, fiscal and personal. Luckily none of that is wasted b/c those attributes benefit you even during calm times. Rather than doing a crash diet to attempt to cure your type 2 diabeetus a better strategy is to changeover to a sustainable diet that is healthy.

Reddit is no different than society itself and being prudent doesn't have anything to do with being intelligent. Personally, I'm an organic food vegan (mostly) who buys physical silver/gold with 10% of my disposable income after building a 10k emergency fund. Cash depreciates every day while precious metals appreciate (or at least have over time). I think a dollar collapse could happen (either real or defacto) that would seriously devalue paper wealth. Just my intuitive feeling about things. My wife doesn't agree and thinks I'm crazy but hey, it's my money. I get my measly 10% and I do with it what I wish.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 1 point2 points ago

A collapse is not the end of the world. It could be for some people but not for most. It's like a tornado that hits a town.

A collapse that happened in any other era might not be the end of the world. But this one just might be different. I do not think that technological civilization is robust enough to survive stalling out for decades, and I do not think it is nimble enough to viably regress to a previous level.

[–]Vikingblood 0 points1 point ago

It's also set up to fail. Our economic boom/bust cycles are built on it. We are just going to experience the bust part after booming for the last hundred years.

I do think it's very important to point out that the rate of decline is not linear, proportional or symmetrical. It's not going to take another hundred years to wind down.

[–]Imidazole0 -2 points-1 points ago

There have been problems with governments before. They all get fixed one way or another. Nothing to feel like the world will turn into Fallout over.

[–]CalmSpider 4 points5 points ago

Collapses have happened over and over throughout history. Collapses are happening right now in some parts of the world. There are a whole bunch of places right now where societies have collapsed, and the people are in the process of rebuilding. I have grown up knowing that the same thing could happen where I live and that it would mean that life would become very difficult for myself and everyone else I knew. I didn't grieve, as far as I remember, when I first considered the idea that everything I know and love will be gone someday.

I don't take the subject of a collapse very seriously in normal conversation for one simple reason: We don't actually know what's going to happen. We can't know. Instead, I work to prepare myself for potential hardships, and I don't take myself too seriously. After all, no matter what I do, everything I care about will end up as mere dust someday.

Also, to put it in perspective, the most horrible thing to happen to life on Earth, as far as I know, happened 2 billion years ago and can't happen again any time soon.

[–]CunningAllusionment 5 points6 points ago

Derrick Jensen once wore that or civilization is like a surreal and macabre dance party where grenades have begun rolling across the floor and everyone is doing their best to ignore them. Do not look away. His noon-fiction book "a language older than words" is both beautiful and terrifying. His two part book "end game" about the dismantling of civilization might also be helpful.

[–]betterthanthee 0 points1 point ago

I like Jensen's work but I signed up for his forums and the people there are awful. The political correctness made me want to puke.

[–]sess 2 points3 points ago*

[On comments.]

The 10 prior comments to mine are all below threshold and presumably callous trolling. I've noted an unfortunate uptick in defamatory, low-brow, and overly lolcat-ish comments on this subreddit, recently. I'm not altogether sure why, but would certainly take comments like "You will hear the cries of your children's hunger pains..." with a generous pinch of salt.

As real-world events increasingly coincide with long-standing doomer predictions (albeit at a slower pace than such ideologues as, say, Kunstler might like), it stands to reason that the mainstream find "doomer"-oriented communities increasingly cognitively threatening. This means us. Hence, this (possible) recent backlash in overtly trollish behavior.

Whatever the cause, it's reduced the quality and dignity of discussion in this subreddit to rubble. (Yes, we once conducted ourselves in a civil manner. Mostly.)

[On collapse.]

I wholeheartedly hope for immediate collapse. Why? The rate of anthropogenic species extinct is most certainly somewhere between 10 to 200 species a day. While a wide range of uncertainty, even assuming the lower bound suggests the extinction of over 175,000 species over the next 50 years -- which most of us will be well alive to witness.

I'd rather neither I or loved ones die prematurely, but I'd more rather the biosphere itself not die prematurely. The biosphere is more important than any single species -- even one so lofty, crafty, and semi-conscious as ours. We have no plausible evidence or expectation of Life elsewhere. If we exterminate Life here (as increasingly appears certain), then what of Life?

I fast routinely and, suffering several incurable autoimmune diseases, am well-acquainted with chronic pain. I wish famine and death on none.

Yet, the inescapable question remains: if other species had a vote, would they vote our species off-planet?

I suspect the answer to be, resoundingly, "Yay." What right-minded species would vote "Nay?" Only the precious few we artificially select for. Domesticated felines, canines, and grain staples, perhaps... and few else. (Perhaps the cetaceans, despite our oceanic extermination campaign. They always did take the High Road.)

That's unfortunate. We're easily the most hated species on Earth, and we've well earned it. I hold no hope for change, and hence hope for collapse.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 0 points1 point ago

Yet, the inescapable question remains: if other species had a vote, would they vote our species off-planet?

Only if they didn't know what was good for them, so to speak.

[–]zachm 1 point2 points ago

I'd more rather the biosphere itself not die prematurely

This is complete and utter nonsense. Whatever humans do, the biosphere will be fine, by definition. You're placing an indefensible premium value on today's mix of species and habitats. Who are you to say that what evolves after we fuck things up (or kill ourselves off) will be inherently less valuable than what exists today?

[–]Imidazole0 0 points1 point ago

Species would be becoming endangered and extinct even without human involvement. It's a natural cycle. It's how life works.

[–]VintageGirl82 2 points3 points ago

I had a lot of issues with the very things that you are dealing with too. I stepped away from communities like this for a while because, even though I really think that there will be some kind of collapse in the future, people were just mean about it. Then you also have to consider the fact that everyone is so cocky about the collapse because you're in a community where people feel that they are "prepared." I don't like reading things from people who are convinced that they are going to hole up somewhere with a gun and shoot anyone who comes around in hopes of getting food. That just seems mean and it isn't my style at all.

I'm still a part of these communities because I like getting tips for homesteads and the sort. I don't like the bad, elitist attitude that seems to come along with it. I think that, if a collapse does come, we will all have to band together. It could be a really beautiful moment for society. Try thinking about it in a different way. I've found a lot of people on collapse boards and in these communities like to focus on the bad stuff. It's always nice to feel vindicated and it gives people a chance to sit around and say "I told you so" if shit really hits the fan. Focus on the positive. Focus on ways to make the planet better.

I spent a lot of time focusing on how horrible everything would be and all the suffering. The words from people who are, to put it bluntly, planning on behaving selfishly make thinking about collapse worse. Try to think of ways that you can make things better and alleviate pain for others. Maybe plan a community garden or talk to your extension office about having classes on soap making or something like that. Do something that makes you feel productive and that will help you feel like you aren't pushing along a collapse, but that you will have made someone's life better when and if a collapse comes.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 1 point2 points ago

I don't like reading things from people who are convinced that they are going to hole up somewhere with a gun and shoot anyone who comes around in hopes of getting food. That just seems mean and it isn't my style at all.

If it makes you feel any better, I suspect that such people will get what's coming to them.

It's not even a very smart attitude... if everyone else is thinking the same thing, then there's no one to steal from.

[–]Jiffy_Squid[S] 1 point2 points ago

Thank you. I agree. It could be a beautiful moment for society, and even if it isn't... I'd rather die trying to make it one than die in prolonged isolation in a hole somewhere. That life may be longer, but it isn't life.

[–]What_Is_X 3 points4 points ago

Contrary to the popular and honestly gratifying idea that a collapse will happen overnight (shit hitting the fan), history and logic tells me it won't. It won't take place over days or weeks; society will slowly deterioriate over months or years if at all. It won't be an emergency "OH BETTER GRAB MY BUG OUT BAG AND HEAD FOR MY MOUNTAIN CABIN" situation. That's complete bullshit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

I think the collapse will be much similar to that of the Soviet Union. As the world looses confidence in the dollar, the federal government will have to issue some kind of a perestroika, and might even loose its ability to hold the union together. I can foresee a few states seceding in order to better protect the interests of their populace. Conflicts might erupt between different states over resources such as water, similar to what happened with some Soviet republics (Armenia and Azerbaijan for example), although in those cases there were ancient enmities which are not present in the US.

[–]What_Is_X 1 point2 points ago

The collapse of the USSR is the best example we have to learn from. And yeah, the states weren't as tight-knit as US states.

[–]drbunny 2 points3 points ago

Reconciling your previous perceptions with those brutally contextualized by this sub-reddit is a difficult task and left to the individual at their own rate of re-orientation. Waking up from a cozy slumber is never pleasant when clashing realities force a re-evaluation of circumstance and preconception. I absolutely went through a grieving period as I slowly grappled with the idea that my spoon-fed reality was a bunch of B.S. and I would have to determine my own definition of engagement and survival, and in what form I wanted to actualize it. It's a process, brother, and I sympathize. To take Hobbes out of context, "Life is poor, nasty, brutish, and short". These are the harsh realities we need to confront in a world of massive starvation, inequality, war and strife. The question is what will you do about it?

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 1 point2 points ago

It hit me last summer with all the debt ceiling hoopla that an economic collapse is more than possible, it's a matter of when and how fast.

It is more than possible, but not certain. And, considering peak oil and so forth, an economic collapse could stall civilization in ways that we cannot recover from. It's good you take this serious, without getting all kooky.

Yet I don't like to think about it too much because the horrific scenarios that would involve real human beings seems like too much to ponder. Literally, whenever I think about a collapse I get in a serious funk and I feel like weeping when I think of my children or anybody's children having to experience it.

I agree. These are not pleasant thoughts. And it doesn't make it any easier to read about idiots that apparently think it is good that this will happen.

But your children need you. If you take your responsibilities as a parent seriously, then you are obligated to start figuring things out now so that they will not have it as bad as those who are totally surprised by collapse.

I have to be honest, my first thoughts are not "Get a gun and hide somewhere"

You do need several. But this cannot be the sum total of your preparation. It is a contingency against a very specific kind of emergency. It won't feed you, it won't keep you warm.

You all are further along in the process of acceptance.

No. I'd be lying if I said I was happy or even accepting of this. I just haven't found the right kind of denial, I suppose.

But even if I'm going to act half-nuts, I can't let that get in the way of preparing. Neither can you.

I guess the question I want to ask is this: what was it like when you first began to entertain the idea that a collapse was immanent?

Maybe 10 years ago. But even then, I would have thought that only extraordinary circumstances could cause it. Nuclear war, rogue asteroid, etc. A few years later, it became a bit more obvious we were being lied to, not about the political bullshit they've always lied about, but about the nature of resource reserves.

I got to thinking about how if you trapped 100 people in a warehouse with enough food to last them 10 years... they don't wait til 9 years and 40 weeks to start panicking. Long before that they'll have figured out how much is left, and somewhere around year 3 or 4 they'll become violent and try to hoard it away from everyone else. Thus, it doesn't matter if there are 70 years of oil left, or 150 of coal. And this is bad even though it doesn't take into account in the real world that the last half of the resources are just more difficult to pump or mine than the first half.

I read a comment the other day saying "You will hear the cries of your children's hunger pains..." You know? There seems to be a lot of inhuman things said so callously here

You can let yourself read those things as mockery designed to torment you, or you can read those as some sort of warning that if you don't personally change your lifestyle things will get very bad for your loved ones.

Food wasn't always just some pre-packaged, pre-cooked product that comes in a handy little microwavable cardboard tray. Real people used to grow it, you still can. And while a farmer from 100 years ago was more skilled than you are, you have alot going for you that they never did... and you can learn their skills too, if you're dedicated. But this all takes time, you need to start as soon as possible.

You need to involve your children even if they are very young. And if your lifestyle doesn't allow for you to start, if you live in a suburb with a small backyard and they don't allow chickens or if you're on the 4th floor of some high-rise condo building, you need to move. If you can't keep your job if you move, you need a new one. If there's no money for learning to grow things... then you need to be more miserly with your money.

It won't happen tomorrow, it won't happen next week. But you need to act like it if only to force yourself to not put off preparation another 10 years.

[–]TianamenSquared 0 points1 point ago

I got to thinking about how if you trapped 100 people in a warehouse with enough food to last them 10 years... they don't wait til 9 years and 40 weeks to start panicking. Long before that they'll have figured out how much is left, and somewhere around year 3 or 4 they'll become violent and try to hoard it away from everyone else.

This is a really good way to illustrate the problem. I'm going to steal this and give it a try.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 1 point2 points ago

Needs polish, but you're welcome to it. Link me if you figure out how to word it better.

[–]LadyDarkKitten 1 point2 points ago

Fortunetly I don't have children to worry about. I do get the 'go weep in the corern' feeling now and again, but then I sit down and tell myself that I am a capable, strong, smart, multi faceted individual and I can get through this. By multi faceted I mean that I can sew, basket weave, wood work (things like wooden nails and eating utensils) I know how to make an array of primitive tools and I know how to tie useful knots and make rope. In addition to that I have a crafting book that covers thing such as how to make thread from scratch. How to build a loom, then how to use said loom to make cloth. I have pretty extensive first aid knowledge and I can grow just about anything. There's lots of things that I am still in the process of learning and if I can't learn it before the collapse I am confident that I'll figure it the fuck out.

[–]Sharlach 0 points1 point ago

Jeez, where do I even begin? I first started thinking about a collapse in about 2007 when oil prices spiked to $147. That was when I started looking into peak oil and learned all I could about it. I can't really remember my initial reaction, but I think it was probably just dread and fear. I started worrying, trying to warn all my friends, and preparing right away. Eventually though I just sort of stopped talking and even thinking about it. For about 18 months it was out of my mind completely and I even went back to being a typical materialistic consumer in that time period--thinking that it would be a long time before anything happened. Recently though, I've sort of snapped back into worrying about this stuff and paying close attention to what's happening around the world.

The thing is, as much as I do believe that we're heading towards some bad times, I don't expect a total collapse anymore, nor do I think we'll see any kind of massive and rapid die off, at least not in the U.S. The truth is that the people that will suffer the most will be those that are the most susceptible (the poor, the old, and the sick), and the places most likely to have die offs and serious civil conflicts will be places with the most people (China and India).

[–]howtospeak 1 point2 points ago

I know an EMP collapse is immanent because it has happened before, The Carrington Event was the biggest one recorded, for it to happen again it would mean the destruction of the electric grid world-wide.

This means nuclear power plants will most likely blow up since their backup generator has enough diesel for only a week. This will kill 90% of the population from radiation poisoning, it will be the end.

It's only a matter of time, I know it's gonna happen soon.

EDIT: Dangerous solar storms happened also in 1921, 1989 and 2003. The last 2 created blackouts in some regions.

[–]spiffiness 2 points3 points ago

I'm confused. If the nuclear power plant was still operating, why would it need a backup diesel-fueled generator? And if it were not operating and required use of the diesel generator, why wouldn't they use the backup power to remove the fuel rods from the reaction chamber? That's a operation that takes seconds, not a week.

[–]howtospeak 0 points1 point ago

Cooling the core takes years, if you just shut it off it will overheat and blow.

[–]Ddraig 0 points1 point ago

A Nuclear Power plant whilst it does generate electricity it needs some electricity to get the process started. The backup generators are typically used to keep the stored fuel rods cool on sight. They need flowing water over them constantly to maintain safe temps. This is what happened at Fukushima. This is probably a rough characterization of what occurred but: The fuel rods lost their constant flow of water, and it boiled off and eventually exploded.

So imagine losing power over the whole US and then realizing with in a week or two nuclear power plants begin melting down. I gave that some thought a few months ago, and almost ended up like the OP. Actually now that I think about it I think I talked about it on the radio show I do.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 0 points1 point ago

I know an EMP collapse is immanent because it has happened before,

Uh. It's possible. But geologists and astronomers and such talk about these sorts of events happening "once every 1000 or 5000 or 100,000 years". I wouldn't call that imminent.

[–]howtospeak 0 points1 point ago

Well the last big ones happened in a 62 year difference.

1859 - 1921

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 0 points1 point ago

1921 Doesn't compare to Carrington.

[–]howtospeak 0 points1 point ago

It's still very destructive in today's standarts, the grid was not as large as today's.

[–]Scumbo 0 points1 point ago

Yeah, of course. I'm right there with you every single day. The only way I cope is to pay attention to the environment around me and think about possibilities, eventualities, and how we're gonna survive if something goes terribly wrong. Odds are something will. BUT. They might not. And, like you, I think that even if I did just leave where I am and huddle down in a bunker, that would be a pretty shitty life even if you do survive. So in the end, I pretty much just pray for rain but prepare for drought, as they say. What's that thing. Realism. Most things are never as bad or as good as you think they are.

[–]ScreamingAmish 1 point2 points ago

It is hard to put into words. I think everyone got here in different ways. It's been almost a year to the day when I watched "Collapse" which opened my eyes. Then four days later my father died. So in a lot of ways my entire world was destroyed within a week.

Everyone handles adversity differently. Plus, everyone has different thoughts on what's good and bad with modern society to begin with. I'll miss the Internet and it's vast knowlegebase, but I think less industrialization will be good for the planet. So there's positives and negatives.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think there is a natural instinct in most males to protect their family or tribe ( whatever you hold that to be ). That's where you get the "Get a gun and hide" mentality from. I did not start thinking in those terms, but now that I am about a year in I have thought seriously about getting and learning to shoot a gun this year. After I first learned about it... nah, I was thinking about learning to garden and can food.

[–]infinitymind 0 points1 point ago

the collapse is surely around the corner. Sure, it's exaggerated to some degree and I wouldn't recommend buy into Everything you read here... I mean there's little you can do by freaking out, the best course of action would be to get informed about what's happening and Expect shit to hit the fan (slowly but surely) - try to share your knowledge with others and simply raise awareness... there's a lot of BS going on in and around the world (especially the U.S.) but most people are completely oblivious to it, that's the issue.

The way I see it, we are on the verge of collapse BUT if we (society) were to expect it and try to change our ways to better the outcome we'd be in good shape, unfortunately that's not the case... we're pushing faster and faster towards the inevitable.

[–]Jman5 -1 points0 points ago

If we can ever fix our campaign finance laws, things will dramatically improve.

90% of the problems we have in our country stem from this mess. I think if things get bad enough people will demand a fix. However, it will have to get a lot worse than it is today.

[–]spiffiness 2 points3 points ago

If Big Money wants to have a say in politics (and it always does) it will find a way, no matter how much campaign finance reform you enact. Even if you keep Big Money out of campaigning, Big Money will find a way to corrupt politicians in other ways, just not via campaign financing. Mankind has never found a way to keep money out of politics. It always finds a way in.

The only way to minimize corruption in government is to make it less profitable to win elections and own politicians. That is, to minimize the power of government.

[–]NihiloZero 1 point2 points ago

I think the general public's response to the various crises we face, and even the response of those who readily acknowledge those crises, can largely be explained with term "cognitive dissonance."

[–]nkktwotwozero 0 points1 point ago

Something Dmitry Orlov said has stuck with me; Collapse happens individually.

Meaning that while it is a societal process, ultimately, individuals live through it and experience it on an individual basis.

[–]eleitl 1 point2 points ago

I am having a hard time taking this place seriously

You shouldn't. It's just a place on the Internet where people come to vent.

even though the threat of collapse seems very real right now

Welcome to the realization. You will get used to it, in time.

much because the horrific scenarios that would involve real human beings seems like too much to ponder

You're supposed to ponder the horrific scenarios in order to prevent them, or at least to cushion the blow. Desasterbation or survivalism is obviously not helping.

when I think of my children or anybody's children having to experience it

Or old people experiencing it. I've seen it, and it's not pretty.

can we get through it?

Yes, for various numeric values of 'we'.

Will civilization be lost?

Not if we prevent it.

I have to be honest, my first thoughts are not "Get a gun and hide somewhere"

This is good -- so masses of people subscribing to above notion will make it hard for saner people by becoming the problem they're trying to prevent.

what was it like when you first began to entertain the idea that a collapse was immanent?

Too many decades past to remember.

Did you go through a mourning or grieving period?

Nope. I see it as a challenge from the engineering perspective.

Anyone relate?

You seem like a good person, with the right emotions. However, on the long run emotions are not helping -- other than a driver, of course.

[–]syuk 1 point2 points ago

I think things will continue to slide as slowly as they have been doing until 'the game is up' and there is no avoiding or dodging the problems anymore.

Today I have heard the news, 48 people have frozen to death somewhere and they are talking about restricting gas use in Italy in order to have enough to heat residences.

I think its fair to assume that our kids won't have the science fiction life we might have imagined for ourselves, there is too much greed and not enough compassion and friendship maybe.

Worrying about something you can't change is wasted effort, just try and be consoled that you are one of few who see what is coming eventually so it won't be so much of a surprise when it does.

[–]triobot 0 points1 point ago

last night i watched collapse.

The truths behind it all is horrifying. You will go through the 5 stages of grief.

  1. Denial

  2. Anger

  3. Bargaining

  4. Depression

  5. Acceptance

And in the words of Micheal Rupport "(Collapse) is not conspiracy theory, it's conspiracy fact."

[–]Vikingblood 1 point2 points ago

Be careful of Ruppert. He is a fine entry point (I think Martenson is better) but his anger towards specific people isn't constructive. He has bits of good information, but his spin, his angle, it's off. It's based on animosity towards the system, it's paymasters and lackeys. I feel, after watching this and his video blogs, that he wants angry action, when honest and constructive thinking is more apt.

Removing emotion from thinking, researching, planning and execution is important. How we feel is irrelevant. Our mood is mutually exclusive to survival and building back towards life.

[–]KeepingTrack 0 points1 point ago

That's why we talk about it and prep. It's something to accept, not something to fret about. Live your life, don't make it into a miserable mess.

BTW, I think that world-wide collapse isn't something that is likely. I think you and other people have mistaken "collapse" for "Doom" like the 2012 nuts.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 2 points3 points ago

BTW, I think that world-wide collapse isn't something that is likely.

Easily refuted with a simple mental exercise. Pick some unfathomably distant time in the future. Say, 500 trillion years. Will humans still be around then? If your answer is nope, backtrack and ask again. Will they still be here in 10 billion years? No... the sun will be long dead. So pick 50 million years, still around? Probably not, very few circumstances could allow it. 1 million? Same answer as before... besides, we wouldn't be anything like we are now, since the sort of growth we currently experience can't work for that long.

10,000 years? Eh, we might not be extinct. But only two possibilities exist: the Star Trek future, or something like the 12th century. Which would you bet on?

But even if we survive as 12th century peasants, that too speaks of collapse.

Will it happen tomorrow? Probably not. But collapse is inevitable.

[–]Vikingblood 0 points1 point ago

The only thing I might add, to push your idea further, is to add into your equation the things that make our lifestyles possible. How do we get those things? How are they made? Where do the materials come from?

Case and point, copper. We have only the low grade ores left and those are fast dwindling. China recently bought the last known major reserve of copper out of South America (forgot where). If we run out of copper, or the price of it goes up too high/fast (a foregone conclusion, really) then, systemically, our lifestyle becomes too expensive to maintain. And that's just copper. Add oil, aluminium, iron, coal, potassium, potash, fresh water and the like, and it gets a lot more interesting.

I like your overall premise though. It's got legs.

[–]KeepingTrack 0 points1 point ago

Yes, so are major solar flares that are capable of taking out most current power systems and electronics on the earth. It's something to consider and perhaps hedge against but things a bit more down to earth to prepare for would be earthquake, mega-earthquake, supervolcano, civil war, war against another country taking place here, terrorist attack and pandemic. I fully agree with you and I plan on passing down a number of things in my family and if possible lay the groundwork to prepare for ice age, major solar flare damage and other "less likely" or "less well known" events. Considering the near-feudalism that still exists even today and especially 100-200 years ago in most parts of the world (including the class difference in the US in the early 1900s and the evolutions of which we are in today).

I believe that the best things we can do toward preparing for any outcome are providing our families and descendants with transmissable knowledge, several places to live, actionable information in strategies for living and of course resources and sustainable lifestyles.

I don't believe that it's impossible for humans (or descendants of humans) to be around in 10 million years and 10 billion years and as far as in 22 to 24 billion years the various deaths that may ensue; the universe at the age of 34 billion years the depleting of energy in the universe (heat death) or the "Big Rip Death" goes I'm not writing us off with that either. As near as we can tell our ancestors were functioning on this planet with tools for less than 500,000 years and just in the past 20 years information networking or "enlightenment" has taken place and is still ongoing to greater and greater extents. Right now as a race we're still largely not connecting the dots in between what we know already, much less having an easy time of jumping to what our ideas of advanced technologies are.

I believe that the major nations of our planet are making strides but also making unsustainable choices. However, all out collapse isn't something I foresee. I'm fairly educated and while technologies are changing and further wars are likely inevitable it's not as if things like this haven't happened before on other scales. I'm not saying we'll succeed in leaving the earth and colonizing other planets in a fashion that is remarkable any time soon, however I fail to see how going back to the dark ages is inevitable. The "everything is possible because it's provable" theory dictates by the same coin that we'll definitely end up finding the means to go ahead colonizing all parts of known space as well. Is the Earth toast in longest-term future? Probably. But by the time our Sol star dies, I have no doubt that even if we do lose our technology level as cultures a time or two that Dyson Spheres, migrating to new stars or sparking all new stars will inevitably be done as well.

Catastrophe doesn't mean "done". There's been enough work toward the end of preserving knowledge, human life, plants and animal life on the planet by major nations that I don't hesitate to say that not everything will be lost. With what I have on my hard drive, for instance I could do a great deal. Do I have EMP proof copies and the means of reading it all? Hell yes. Do I have redundant copies? Hell yes. Do I have sustainable energy? Hell yes. The fact that I'm just one random person in six billion people on the planet with very little income should give you an idea of what will happen if things go pear shape across a nation or across a world. The things we have now won't be lost. Might it take 100 years to rebuild a lot of it? Sure. Will it be done better? Yep, because we have more concentrated knowledge than was had when things were being built in the first place. With the growth of major sites dramatized on satellite imagery of a decade it's quite easy to see what's possible with the skills gained from such knowledge. Even if it's a major scavenger hunt by others to find what I and others have preserved, it'll be done. That's how humanity seems to function again and again. There's a degree of certainty that catastrophe will be severe as to make us extinct as time goes on by today's understanding. But that understanding will change and evolve and I hardly understand how anyone can say with any degree of assurance that it is sure that we'll be extinct until all options and resources are exhausted. Think about it.

The universe is something like 12 billion years old. We've been around in our current state with this level of knowledge available for less than 50 years. Really more like 20 years and not remotely like the degree things are at today. Even if we'd been like that for 500,000 years that's still 1/2000th of a billion years and we'll still probably have at maximum 39,999 times that to go to solve the "heat-death of the universe" issue once we get off the planet of solve "the Sun's death" issue. We've been around as an identifiable species less than 1/10,000th of the time until Sol putters out and if the effects of it are detrimental to us in half of that time we still have 5,000 times how long we've been around. Don't get ahead of yourself.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft -1 points0 points ago

dictates by the same coin that we'll definitely end up finding the means to go ahead colonizing all parts of known space as well.

Given enough time, I'd agree with you. But we don't have unlimited time. If you don't figure out fusion (for instance) before the fossil fuels run out, you'll have a hell of a time developing, testing, and engineering fusion with pig tallow candles and ox carts.

There aren't any good substitutes for fossil fuels currently. Renewables have horrible EROEI. They don't make the cut.

With what I have on my hard drive, for instance I could do a great deal.

And how would you even get it off of a hard drive, if the worst were to happen? Even if you somehow manage to copy it from one machine to another til you get a connection to a printer to begin mass producing the knowledge stored in those little PDF files, what then?

99% of the valuable human knowledge was never written down. Sure, there's a chemical formula for some kickass medicine drawn in a nifty little diagram. But you don't have the notes from the chemical/pharmaceutical engineers detailing how they finally figured out how to synthesize it in sufficient quantity over a period of 8 years. And there are zillions of things like that, never committed to paper or computer. The only reason we haven't lost those things immediately is because the man who is about to retire teaches it to the new guy for 6 months first. And those who have the most important knowledge are in their 50s, 60s, and 70s. It wouldn't take long for that institutional knowledge to be lost.

But assume even that's not an issue. Assume that problem magically goes away.

The oil that was available to be drilled and pumped in the mid 1800s could be drilled and pumped with mid 1800s technology. Pumping that oil allowed progress that permitted them to drill and pump oil that could only be reached with 1920s technology. Which then allowed for progress that permitted reaching oil only reachable with 1950s tech.

And so on. But if we're ever busted down to a lower level of technology, even temporarily... the resources that we can reach with that tech has been used up. The only oil left requires 2012 technology. And it's not just oil. Most resources are like this. How long would the deep-sea rigs stay serviceable, if some temporary panic happened? 2 years tops? And you can't build more of them unless the oil is already flowing because we've never built such things in an oil-less world. It takes several million parts and pieces shipped all over the place... and you can't do shipping without fossil fuel.

to go to solve the "heat-death of the universe" issue once we get off the planet

I'd be happy to solve the energy scarcity issue. Those others can wait.

[–]mikeystewart 0 points1 point ago

We are at the height of the roman empire. Instead of going to the Collisium , we watch the news for our daily dose of violence. And instead of the roman orgies we watch porn. Not that I am against porn, or the news, just something I noticed.

[–]Superslothrob 0 points1 point ago

The Colosseum games were Sunday evening.

[–]KazamaSmokers 1 point2 points ago

HST called it The Fear, and it eventually got him.

[–]Jiffy_Squid[S] 0 points1 point ago

Who's HST?

[–]KazamaSmokers 0 points1 point ago

hunter thompson

[–]Jiffy_Squid[S] 1 point2 points ago

So he called angst over the end of civilization "The Fear"? And that's why he committed suicide? (Not too familiar w. HST... if you have any links to good articles, that would be great)

[–]Vikingblood 1 point2 points ago

I'll get back you later. This is bat country.

[–]Capissen38 1 point2 points ago

Here's one of the most beautiful passages in any literature, ever, from Thompson's Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (the novel). Thompson is reflecting on the failure of the last attempt at revolution in America, in the late 1960s:

Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Five years later? Six? It seemed like a lifetime, or at least a Main Era – the kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run… but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant...

History is hard to know, because of all the hired bullshit, but even without being sure of 'history' it seems entirely reasonable to think that every now and then the energy of a whole generation comes to a head in a long fine flash, for reasons that nobody really understands at the time – and which never explain, in retrospect, what actually happened.

My central memory of that time seems to hang on one or five or maybe forty nights – or very early mornings – when I left the Fillmore half-crazy and, instead of going home, aimed the big 650 Lightning across the Bay Bridge at a hundred miles an hour wearing L.L. Bean shorts and a Butte sheepherder’s jacket... booming through the Treasure Island tunnel at the lights of Oakland and Berkeley and Richmond, not quite sure which turn-off to take when I got through the other end (always stalling at the toll-gate, too twisted to find neutral while I fumbled for change)… but being absolutely certain that no matter which way I went I would come to a place where people were just as high and wild as I was: No doubt at all about that...

There was madness in any direction, at any hour. If not across the Bay, then up the Golden Gate or down 101 to Los Altos or La Honda... You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning...

And that, I think, was the handle – that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting – on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave...

So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark – that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.

[–]Jiffy_Squid[S] 1 point2 points ago

Heartbreaking...

[–]londubh2010 0 points1 point ago

Nope. I'm in total denial.

[–]MmeLaRue 0 points1 point ago

I grew up during the late 70s and early 80s when the threat of nuclear war was embedded into popular culture and into the psyche of my generation. We grew up thinking quite literally that we were not going to grow up. For some of us, it was yet another layer on all the moral panics that gripped us; for others, it was an opportunity to imagine what would follow: whether it would be a land of sex and horror (as said Frankie Goes to Hollywood), or some Utopia waxed poetic by many other artists of the period. The reality of this situation, like most other realities, sits somewhere in the middle. We will each need to create our own Eden from the ashes of this Madison Avenue-created divide.

To answer your question, OP, those of us who know what's coming may be taking things too seriously, but those in denial or in ignorance are taking it far too lightly. For the kind of guidance that will help us along without throwing us into a panic with every headline, the vast majority of us might do well to read up on the simple living movement in general and get a somewhat more positive spin on what could be a reality for us all over time. I figure it's far better for us to be creative and frugal and aware now because we want to be, than it is to have to fly it by the seat of our pants when we hit an economic wall personally. Psychologically tightening our belts will make the actual push towards a corrected standard of living much, much less painful.

[–]Will_Power 0 points1 point ago

I had been thinking about the decline of the U.S. that began in the 1970s before I really started to consider various collapse scenarios, so I kind of had my mourning phase out of the way.

[–]biomassive 0 points1 point ago

I began to think that a collapse was possible (not nessecarily imminent) after watching the response to hurricane Katrina. That event evaporated what little remaining faith I had for government. The fact that the gov't was unwilling or unable to help made it very clear that the individuals have to be responsible for their own wellbeing and security. I tend to follow the maxim: hope for the best but prepare for the worst. It allows me to be optimistic.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

It's unlikely that, in the event of a collapse, that people will start freaking out and hiding somewhere with their guns.

People in war zones around the world live (and have lived) in what was a state of collapse. What happens is there is a terrible degradation of the standard of living and way of life. People still try to maintain a society.

My parents grew up in Europe during WWII. Although the "authorities" still existed, they existed in name only. You didn't go to the police to complain about a crime, the police came to you to commit a crime. So yes, you were responsible for your own protection, but the fact that all your neighbors were also vigilantly watching out for you helped in that aspect immensely and crime was rare and swiftly punished.

The only truly horrific scenario you would have to prepare for would be something that would be very unlikely, like nuclear war or a zombie apocalypse. Neither is very likely to happen imho.

So, when it comes to making preparations for a collapse, it is simply an exercise in prudence and self-sufficiency. Can you grow your own food if you need to? Can you defend yourself and your friends/loved ones/neighbors if need be? Do you have people you know and respect to work together with in a time of need?

This is something we should all be able to do, at least to some degree.

As for the more extreme comments, I regard them as people who do think that nuclear war or a zombie apocalypse is around the corner, and quite honestly, I kind of feel that their feet aren't quite on the ground and that they're not here for the right reasons.

[–]Jiffy_Squid[S] 0 points1 point ago

Thanks...I guess the only version I've heard thus far is zombie apocalypse. The idea of people not freaking out and protecting each other is one I hope to be a part of.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

Although people can be quite selfish, in a survival situation it almost always benefits everyone if they work together. Remember: lone wolves starve, packs survive.

The zombie apocalypse folks would probably be better off posting in /r/thewalkingdead, lol.

[–]Yankeehero 0 points1 point ago

I think a lot of people, like me, entertain the more horrible and far fetched collapse scenarios more for fun. I'm in to the whole doomsday end of civilization scenario, but I don't think it will happen at all. This imminent collapse will certainly be very slow and never completely a collapse. But I do believe we will be facing times where food may be hard to get, employment scarce, and riots and revolutions will be a real danger.

[–]dubman42 0 points1 point ago

You won't survive if your strategy is to head to the hills and live in a hole. But following a transition period from an economic collapse I see communities working together and re-aligning to a localized economy rather than the global one we have now. People will need to migrate to hospitable locations, everyone will learn to grow their own garden, generate their own electricity, harvest their own meat and live within their own localized means. Personally, spending the rest of my time here on earth in a community of self sufficient homesteading hippies doesn't sound all that bad. The tricky part is surviving the transition.

[–]Ddraig 0 points1 point ago

This is kind of what I've been dealing with, and started my internet radio show as a result. I however am one of the unfortunate ones that requires society to run at least at its current levels due to the need for medication. :P

[–]webdoodleSee! The sky is falling... 0 points1 point ago

"Check yourself before your wreck yourself"

-Ice Cube

The context may not be the same, but the realities of the statement certainly apply here. Doubt about something as important as collapse is a good thing, it's denial that's the problem.

[–]xbk1 0 points1 point ago

You need to hang out with someone hopeful, like science journalist John Horgan

[–]pinkcoco 0 points1 point ago

I don't think its wrong to have these feeling of remorse and uncertainty. When it first occurred to me that I might be forced to deal with a societal collapse in my lifetime, I had nightmares (still do). I decided it was plausible before I found /r/collapse and it made me feel a bit less insane to realize that there were other people out there who saw the warning signs around them. I think the callousness you're describing comes from the division people have about society. For some, collapse means survival of the fittest (a kind of social Darwinism) and the general propagation of the human race. To others, its the perfect expression of complex society to help one another to survive.

Personally, I feel a combination of both. I have some friends that are pretty hardcore and are willing to do whatever it takes in a bug-out to make sure they survive. Another good friend of mine thinks I'm crazy for just having some basic supplies like water tablets and camping gear. She has a small family and I worry that if the worst were to happen they might not know what to do. It breaks my heart, but its her choice to ignore even the most basic of survival skills.

Just a thought, but when I was a kid (I had hippie parents) my mom made me read this book called the Celestine Prophecy. It was about a societal awakening and gradual realization about a collective knowledge. I wrote it off as scify. When I started to feel like something was wrong with the world, some of the ideas in the book started to make sense, but mostly the concept synchronicity. Basically, people in the book all share a sense of uncertainty and uneasiness. As you begin to wake up to the signs around you, more appear. Gradually, everyone sees the truth. I've found that the more I come to realize, the more I meet people who share my concerns. It's a similar concept to the idea of a societal 'shift' in the Maya calendar.

Whether the end comes sooner, later, fast, or slow is almost irrelevant. The important part is that we come out of our coma and brace for impact. Some people wont make it, but some people don't know how to distill water or which forest greens are edible. Altruism has a role post collapse. Gathering knowledge to rebuild is an important task that doesn't involve stockpiles of guns or self-isolation. Maybe you'll feel a better sense of fulfillment and security in knowledge, it helped me :)

[–]Joelzinho 0 points1 point ago

I did feel it when I was subscribed. It was depressing and it weighted on my mind heavily throughout the day. Everything I said seemed to have a dark outlook towards the future. It seemed to find itself in every aspect of my life, from playing sports, socializing with friends, reading, everything seemed negative.

So I unsubscribed and now I just check in every so often. Much healthier.

[–]penguins_913q 1 point2 points ago

A collapse would occur over a period of several months to a few years (the latter being more likely). Don't stress about it OP, just have a slightly more robust disaster prep kit and have a garden in your backyard. When shit actually hits the fan (for those of us in most 1st world countries) you can start being a bit more paranoid.

[–]BarkingCynic -1 points0 points ago

Chin up, comrade, it gets easier as you go. The way I see it, your intellect is telling you that you've got good reasons to be fearful, and you've got enough guts that you're not just ignoring the problems and trying not to think about them. The way I see it, it takes a lot of courage to admit that you're scared silly.

So here you are - you're pretty worried, and you're getting more so every day. I am too, incidentally.

What I would suggest is to make a plan. Keep the steps in the plan down to simple, manageable, bite-sized chunks. Then make patient and consistent progress on the plan.

Somebody else, on my wanderings across the internet, suggested that everybody get prepared to survive without any outside help first for just one day. You've get yourself and your family squared away such that you can be totally on your own for one day - no doctor, no pharmacist, no grocery store, no power company, no running water, and the police officers are not coming either. Once you're ready to be on your own for one day, you prepare for ten days. Then for a hundred days, etc. That struck me as being very clever - not only because it's much more manageable to proceed that way, but then you've got real milestones to set your mind at ease with.

That's the bulk of my advice - get a plan, start making progress with it, and I think you'll have a lot more peace of mind as a result.

Personally, I also take comfort in knowing that God has a plan for us all and that he's in charge.

However, that doesn't excuse us the responsibility to do everything we can, with what we have, for as long as we can. I read a really neat quote on www.survivalblog.com today - "When the time to perform is at hand, the time to prepare has passed.

So, I'd say shake yourself out of the fear-induced numbness, make a list of stuff you'll need for a day, and get it squared away! You'll feel worlds better.

[–]Raddra 1 point2 points ago

Keep in mind that 'collapse' does not mean some kind of armageddon where everything turns into max max (though things could get dangerous, especially in the opening stages due to all the worst elements of society + riots) collapse pretty much means reducing your living standards to match those of the less rich nations of the world.

[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 0 points1 point ago

WHO RUN BARTERTOWN?

[–]creepindacellar -1 points0 points ago

it is a life shattering realization, and there is nothing you can do about it.

[–]mynameisdave 0 points1 point ago

"You will hear the cries of your children's hunger pains..."

Pangs. Hunger pangs.

[–]BarkingCynic -1 points0 points ago

Oh, yeah - and the "Get a gun and hide somewhere" idea is kind of appealing to me, too. However, I think teamwork, coordination, communication and loyalty will work a whole lot better over the long and short term.

That's not to say that I'm trying to talk you out of buying a firearm if you're currently unarmed. Owning a firearm (and knowing how to use it!!!) is just prudent, I think. 'Course, that's a part of my background, training and the way I was raised, too, so I'm admittedly biased.

Think of it this way - is it evil to be a great big guy with muscles out to here? No, of course not. The good or evil in it is what the great big guy does with his strength. The same thing applies to firearms.

"God made man, Henry Colt made 'em all equal."