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What I hate about owning a car. Trying to keep it looking nice. I want a vehicle that is just pure utility (image-wise). (self.Frugal)

submitted ago* by dirtymoney

No fancy paint jobs that will dull & eventually rust through. What I would love is a car that's body is covered in some kind of black rubberized sealant. I want something that just gets me to & from work without eventually looking like a rusted out shitbox, but doesnt look like a regular shiny car that requires exterior upkeep. SOmething that can take winter weather & road salt.

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[–]Skulder 25 points26 points ago

... Tha trabant was made with duroplast. Of course, that gave rise to new problems, as it was partially edible - don't park near goats.

[–]JoeBobson 29 points30 points ago

Are you serious? The Trabant? You have to carry two-cycle oil and mix it into the gasoline like you're driving a goddamn glorified lawnmower. There's no fuel gauge! You use a dipstick to determine how much gas you have left! When I was in Germany people left their keys in the ignition because they weren't worth stealing.

[–]Cleaver2000 10 points11 points ago

Back in the day, they used to have gas-oil mix at gas stations. After 1989 they started making the trabant with a VW engine, but yea; still a POS. A communist era car that bordered on being good was the Lada Niva.

[–]awesley 9 points10 points ago

When I was in Germany people left their keys in the ignition because they weren't worth stealing

I used to do that with my 1980 Pinto. This was probably about 1992. I took everything of value out of it, had only the car keys on the key ring, would leave it running when I went into a store. Darn thing was always there when I got back.

I kept trying to sell it, no takers, until finally I got $160 for it. It had four fairly new Michelins on it and an aftermarket stereo. I think I could have sold them separately for more than I got for them on a running car.

[–]wmurray003 0 points1 point ago

You should have.

[–]poorieuser 4 points5 points ago

My roommate imports them and drives one. Doesn't seem to have too many problems with them other than all the things you described, the shitty decaying body panels, messed up brakes, leaking exhaust and the fact that his roof is coming off.

[–]JoeBobson 0 points1 point ago

A part of me has always wanted to pimp one out. How hilarious would a Trabant with hydraulics be? I don't even think there's room for that.

[–]lurkerinmyheart -1 points0 points ago

I've driven a trabant ;)

[–]wmurray003 -1 points0 points ago

http://picfind2.bloguez.com/picfind2/1662870/trabant-tuning

[–]shenpen 0 points1 point ago

Ah, the good old Paper Jaguar. Did you know there is a cabrio Trabi called Tramp? They are unbeatably cute: http://www.ronnyrother.de/Trabant_Tramp.jpg

[–]hallbuzz 58 points59 points ago

Volvo 240 series. I've had several of them. I've bought them with 150K - 350K miles on them and gotten years of service out of them. The great thing about a $500 car,; if it dies I can just walk away and buy another one. My current one was a dull flat grey, with rust. Last summer I spent $100 on spray paint and a few hours to liven it up. I still use it like a truck and haul boats, bikes, lumber on whatever on the roof.

Here it is with a 26CF refrigerator strapped to the roof:

http://hallbuzz.com/images/2011/jun/new_fridge_1_1024.jpg

[–]AcceptableLosses 18 points19 points ago

The 90-93 240s are galvanized and more-or-less immune to rust, so those are the ones to get. The 940 is nearly the same exact car, just nicer, and also immune to rust. I prefer 940s at this point. Too many years in a 240!

[–]zimm0who0net 17 points18 points ago

Just as an aside, Galvanizing doesn't make steel immune to rust. The Galvanizing is sacrificial. In other words, it disappears first, immunizing the steel. Once it's gone, the steel rusts quickly. The alloys used in the late 80s and early 90s were significantly better than previous generations, but still will, and do, rust.

Another aside. The alloys they're building cars with today were not even known 10 years ago. That's how fast things are changing in the field. Pretty interesting given that steel making has been mainstream for 150 years. Today's alloys are FAR FAR superior in avoiding rust than those used in 1990..

[–]AcceptableLosses 9 points10 points ago

Very informative. I'm not going on any background in materials science - All I do is turn wrenches and have taken special note of the cars I don't have to cut, grind, and weld new pieces of metal to :)

[–]zimm0who0net 11 points12 points ago

Real world knowledge is, in many ways, superior. I can talk all day about alloys and electrochemical processes, but there's other factors at work that are harder to quantify. For instance, the 240s were reasonably expensive, and a family car, so they probably tended to be sold to people in suburbs with garages and thus were not subjected to the same harsh environments that cars parked on the street our outside might have.

[–]derridad 0 points1 point ago

Welder/fabricator here. %100 agreed.

[–]balthisar 6 points7 points ago

I build car bodies for a living. Everything is basically right. Except... the galvanizing is rust-proof. Then it's topped with e-coat. Then paint. Then clear coat. And way pay a whole hell of a lot of attention to drainage holes. Modern cars generally won't rust. A bad body design (or defective ecoat, paint, etc) could cause troubles.

Note that the parent is correct in that galvanization doesn't make the parts rust-proof, just rust resistant, hence all of the other treatments. But it's not a sacrificial material, either; it's intended to be permanent. If you grind off everything from a 10 year old car, the original 60 gram weight should still be 60 grams.

The advanced materials we use aren't inherently rust-proof, either. They're super strong, super light, and we still galvanize them if they're going to be an exposed surface in certain markets. Yes, in certain markets we either galvanize or don't. By markets, I don't mean Michigan vs Nevada. I mean the USA versus the Middle East.

Most of the modern, advanced- and ultra- high strength steels aren't exposed, and don't require galvanization.

[–]hallbuzz 0 points1 point ago

Thanks, I didn't know this.

[–]zimm0who0net 1 point2 points ago

Galvanization is indeed a sacrifical material. See here for more details. With a penetration free sheet of steel, you're correct in that the zinc coating actually protects the steel without corroding, but the real benefit of galvanization over, for instance, a paint is that once scratched, paint does nothing for rust prevention whereas the zinc will draw out the corrosive electrical currents and corrode away, thus protecting the steel until the zinc is all gone.

[–]technomad 1 point2 points ago

This is interesting. Cars slated for the Middle East aren't galvanized? Why not? Many parts of the Middle East have high humidity, where car rust is a real problem.

[–]hallbuzz 5 points6 points ago

Hmm, mines an 89 and definitely rust prone.

[–]AcceptableLosses 6 points7 points ago

It sure is! If you see a lot of 240s around, look at the windshield - The ones with chrome windshield surrounds are pre-1990, and the ones with rubber are after. The only rubber-windshield surround 240s with rust will be ones that were hit, and repaired poorly.

[–]johnwalkr 2 points3 points ago*

I feel like I have to correct some misinformation here:

  • Volkswagen started galvanizing whole parts of cars in about 1974 and since the early 80s every most mass produced car have been been mostly galvanized. Porsche and Audi started galvanizing whole cars around this time.

  • galvanizing works by coating steel in zinc. When zinc oxidizes, it forms a hard layer that prevents further oxidation. Scratch the layer, and it will form again. When steel oxidizes, it makes a porous layer, not a protective one. The zinc coating does not get used up unless you physically wear it off, but eventually defects and damage will allow the steel underneath to rust

  • even when you scratch a car down to the steel, the surrounding zinc offers some protection because (and this is simplified) the zinc is more reactive with oxygen than steel is so it oxidizes preferentially compared to the steel

  • Car bodies are made from very regular steel, to this day, though heat treatments get more advanced.

  • Aluminum is being used more these days for hoods and trunk lids to save weight, but is still rarely used in structural components (body included) aside from a handful of expensive cars.

  • The real advancements in corrosion protection in new cars are better paints and better robotic application of paints

tl;dr: All cars are are at least partially galvanized and ones that were painted better will go longer without rusting

All that being said, my lifestyle allowed me to move to a city with good transit and some bad luck forced me to try car-free. I know not everyone can do this, especially in North America but I had no idea how much of a positive impact going car-free would be for me and I will probably never own one again.

And all of that being said, I used to recommend older cars as well, but right now there are new cars like the Hyundai Accent that are fuel-misers, cheap, available with low interest rates, have amazing warranties and pretty good resale value. Unless you're going ultra-frugal with a CRX or something, I'd take a look at some new cars. The Accent I mentioned is fully galvanized and has a 7 year corrosion perforation warranty. GM is 6 years and Audi is 12.

edit: corrected the history of galvanized cars. Most cars are mostly galvanized, but only some are fully galvanized

[–]AcceptableLosses 2 points3 points ago

Speaking of misinformation... BMW and Audi e-coat their car - Not galvanization. The process uses a variety of metals and chemicals to achieve the result. Porsche started galvanizing first - In '75, and then the entire body in '78. Volvo never galvanized or rust-treated any car until the 1985 740/760, which made it to the 240s by the next refresh - 1990. Mercedes only started completely galvanizing their cars in 2002. VW cars were not completely galvanized until the MkIV Jetta platform, in the case of the III, the only panels galvanized are the outer door skins, hood, trunk lid, etc - Not the floors or the unibody - This information is in the VW Factory Service manual, in fact.

And as a mechanic, in the state of Maine, it's pretty apparently - The VW line especially. There are nearly no MkI/II VWs here - They all rusted away - And there is a decreasing number of MkIIIs, due to the ungalvanized areas on the car - The floor, shock towers, and unibody. MkIVs? Don't rust at all. Fully galvanized.

[–]johnwalkr 2 points3 points ago

Thanks for the update. You're right. For some reason I thought that the mk1 (starting with the Scirocco) was the first mass-produced fully galvanized car. Maybe it was the first VW that had some galvanized panels. I will update my post.

[–]AcceptableLosses 2 points3 points ago

Oh, if ONLY Mk I/II Vdubs were galvanized. I know a lot of folks that had them that wish they were still around.

I know about the III's because the floors, man, the floors! There's this thick rubber undercoat that works great - Until you breach it somewhere - Then the rust starts there, and you typically don't even know it until the floors feel soft or you pull the carpet.

And Re: Other manufacturers - Ain't it a pisser that they've been doing the body panels for years, but very infrequently the floors/longs/etc? I fucking hate rust repair. I hate rusty cars, stuck nuts and bolts... In this state, if the car is more than ~2 years old, any nut or bolt I have to remove is stuck. Shops up here probably use more acetylene than any other part of the country.

[–]johnwalkr 2 points3 points ago

I hear you! I've owned a mk1 caddy, mk1.5 scirocco and a mk3 golf. The mk3 floors also have that helpful sand that really locks in the moisture!

The mk1 caddy had a terrible floor. I used por15 and fibreglass to fix it and was really happy with the results. You can't really do that on a customer's car though.

But the Scirocco survived Alberta winters without any significant rust forming. It did get a stuck A-arm bolt though, which required cutting open the subframe and then rewelding to fix. Not fun, but one of those jobs that went surprisingly better than expected; it only took a few hours.

I used to get the ol' window roll down at stop lights: "Oh man, I used to have one of those cars. I can't believe I sold it. Never sell it!" I sold it.

I wish I kept the Caddy stock and enjoyed it. I turned it into an overambitious project (VR turbo) that sucked all my money and time and never was completed. A few stolen parts later and I sold it for a song.

Speaking of floor boards, I have a friend that drives old Toyota trucks. He was driving through some pretty deep snow when he heard a rumble, and the next thing he knew the truck came to a stop as the weak floor caught the snow and was peeled down like a sardine can, turning it into a shovel that instantly filled the cab with snow. He just took his stuff from it and left it there.

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    [–]chadcf 6 points7 points ago

    Around here they're getting rather spendy as they have a reputation as a solid car with hipster style (I'm in the NW). I've looked at older models that need thousands in repairs (transmission rebuild, engine mounts, etc) and the owners still want like $2k for them.

    [–]AcceptableLosses 7 points8 points ago

    There's this jackass here in Maine that thinks he can sell 240s that he's done a bunch of work to for 4-5 grand... Even with 300-400k on them. I love Volvos, but 300k = $500 car, I don't care how nice it is.

    Anyways, they sit on Craigslist forever and ever, I can't imagine he sells them; seeing as every 240 I've tried to flip I never get more than a grand for.

    [–]hallbuzz 1 point2 points ago

    I'd maybe pay ~$1500 for a nice one, but yea $4-5K is way too much.

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

    I wish I lived in America where cars are $500.00 and insurance doesn't take a friggin Jihad to set up.

    [–]jasonellis 9 points10 points ago

    Where do you live? I would be interested in how it is different where you are.

    [–]johnwalkr 3 points4 points ago

    Where do you live? You might take that statement back when you realize motoring is heavily subsidized in North America, to the point where you need a car to almost anything and other modes of transit are non-existent. Everything is sprawled and most people can't even choose to walk to get groceries instead of drive.

    [–]esculent 2 points3 points ago

    I LOVED my 240. I miss it.

    [–]Hootbot 0 points1 point ago

    They're great cars and I own one, but they rust pretty badly like most cars from 30 years ago.

    [–]pixelharmony 2 points3 points ago

    My dad had a 83 240DL, I miss that car.

    [–]tnethacker 2 points3 points ago

    I'd say Volvo V40 - drives and feels as sturdy as a tractor and never gets any rust - doesn't cost that much as well.

    [–]cmunerd 2 points3 points ago

    And with that paint job, you have no fears someone will try to steal your car. :)

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

    I'd like to know where people are getting these miracle $500 cars. A friend told me a similar story about a Honda he bought, was his grandmothers then his aunts, then his and been driving it 8 years and pushing 200k miles.

    Meanwhile I'll dump $20k into 3 cars over 5 years and still have shit.

    [–]timmietimmins 3 points4 points ago

    Private sales.

    I got my car for a lot less than it was worth for a simple reason: The seller was rural and isolated and didn't really have a lot of options. If he had lived in a city he would have certainly asked more. The individual seller also really matters. Ideally, you want someone cheap (or poor) enough that they actually care about the sale. A guy who makes $75 an hour probably isn't going to give you a deal simply because he doesn't care if his $500 car rusts out at the back of his property, or gets donated to charity. You simply can't haggle at price levels that are an insult to the parties involved.

    Also, because the work, transportation, and other expenses become very significant for low value vehicles, the prices fluctuate a lot more. If your car is worth 20k and it would fetch the best price in a city 3 hours away, you arrange something. If your car is worth 2k, you don't usually bother.

    Also, beaters have gone up a lot locally (as in, locally for me) because the poor economy encourages people to actually WANT cheap cars. the best place to go buy used stuff is in an affluent middle class area: People throw a lot of stuff out when they are making a lot of money. 2007 was a GREAT time to pick up a beater. 2011 is not. Relatively speaking.

    It's also a fair bit of luck, and a fair bit of basic competence. If you don't keep an eye on beaters, they don't last you 100k+ kilometers.

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      [–]silkymike 1 point2 points ago

      Damn that's beautiful, I love the wheels. Is that a '91? How many miles? I just hit 213k in mine and I feel like I can double that if I can fight rusting well enough.

      [–]hallbuzz 3 points4 points ago

      It's an 89. The odometer went out at 19something a few years ago. I bought an 82 for $800 and drove it for 8 years with no major problems. When I sold it it had just passed IM inspection perfectly clean. The inspector guys were amazed it ran so clean. They had no idea it was on it's third odometer and had such high mileage.

      [–]silkymike 2 points3 points ago

      That is great to hear. I'm on my second 240, my girlfriend thinks I'm insane. My 240 was $1,200 i bought 3 years ago, the girls dad was a mechanic at a Volvo dealership and it spent most of it's life down south. Jackpot.

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        [–]chimpanzeebutt 1 point2 points ago

        I have always loved the way that car looks.

        [–]tablog 1 point2 points ago

        That is a sweet paint job. Most 240s are that terrible grey. Also, those things are built like tanks!

        [–]jimgagnon -1 points0 points ago

        Old Volvos are tanks, but anything later made during the Ford or Chinese periods are garbage. Don't make the same mistake I made and stay away from them.

        [–]hallbuzz 0 points1 point ago

        As an aside; one time around 1999 when the Internet was still kind of newish, I sorted through an online listing of thousands of cars. You could sort by any attribute. Even though Volvo's made up a tiny percent of the total cars listed (like way under 1%) they made up half of the cars listed that had over 200,000 miles. That says something about older Volvos in my opinion.

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          [–]SL8Rfan 33 points34 points ago

          1984 toyota landcruiser with a cummins diesel engine converted to run on used vegetable oil, matte black. my zombie stompin' machine.

          [–]Floriderp 5 points6 points ago

          I want one of these so bad. I drove one around in Costa Rica on a surf trip and fell in love with it.

          [–]SL8Rfan 10 points11 points ago

          here's what i did. buy a landcruiser in a landlocked state that either runs ok or doesn't run but has no rust damage. that is important as the rust will eventually kill the poor beast. you can get them cheap on Craigslist. then, go find a company that is going out of business, like a bread company...really any company that delivers their product. research their delivery vehicles...find a 4bt cummins with less than 100,000 miles. you see where i;m going with this? the build will be tough...but you will learn about teardowns and anytime you have any mechanical issues, you will be able to fix it. also, it helps to rhino line the interior of the lc to dampen the noise. i also added a three inch body lift with a three inch suspension lift, push bumpers and a cage up top with 15 extra gallons of veggie oil (collected from fast food places, filtered and cut with some diesel to decrease gelling). currently, she is being soundproofed on the interior and two rust spots on the doors are being repaired otherwise i would post pics. i will soon.

          [–]SL8Rfan 5 points6 points ago*

          oh and she gets around 20 mpg with veggie oil conversion,had that done professionally, so it's pretty good on fuel, surprisingly. hey, i found an old picture before the paint and accessories, here you go

          [–]Floriderp 3 points4 points ago

          badass. would love to see some pics.

          This is a project I could see my self going for someday

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

          I didn't realize that being frugal required testicles.

          [–]lumberjackninja 0 points1 point ago

          The 4bt is deceptively hard to find, at least where I live. I looked into getting one to replace the 5.7L Vortec in my Chevy, since the transmission bolts right up. Unfortunately, so was everybody else and they're snatched up really quickly.

          [–]Pwag 0 points1 point ago

          Damn land cruisers are expensive, even the old ones, how do you get around that hump?

          [–]SL8Rfan 4 points5 points ago

          she's been across the country several times, down baja for a surf trip, up and down the atlantic and pacific coast (surfing). next stop, central america for my final destination and surf life.

          [–]Floriderp 2 points3 points ago

          Good on ya. I'm rebuilding an old sailboat to live on and explore the world for surf. It was the skills I learned rebuilding the boat diesel that has made me really want one of these landcruisers. We are like minded fellows it seems.

          [–]SL8Rfan 2 points3 points ago

          that sounds like a dream come true. did a bit of that in Bali with some aussies awhile back...surfing and sailing. amazing. lemme know if you need crew!!!

          [–]Floriderp 2 points3 points ago

          I'll need crew eventually!

          The boat rebuild has been a long process, but I've come a long way. If you are ever bored, check out the blog I've kept since the beginning:

          The Quest for Wind and Waves

          [–]mrjderp 2 points3 points ago

          Can't beat Toyota/Cummins

          [–]pastafarian777 0 points1 point ago

          Did you do the vegetable oil conversion yourself? I am very interested in doing something like this to my vehicle. Does it have to be a diesel? How much did it cost to convert?

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

          Feckin A

          [–]SL8Rfan 0 points1 point ago

          all in, the vehicle cost me about 5,000 to build and will run forever with minimal maintenance and will never cost me a dime for fuel (unless i cut the used veggie oil with diesel)...therefor, frugal.

          [–]Pwag 0 points1 point ago

          I wonder if you compress zombies to extract oil.

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            [–]DocturDread 27 points28 points ago

            I worked in a few auto body shops. The easiest cars to work on were the silver cars. They always looked cleanest and you don't see any imperfections in the paint.

            I'd recommend a silver pick-up.

            [–]monsda 13 points14 points ago

            I've had a silver car for ~7 years now. Every time I clean it I find new dings and dents, but they seem to disappear from a few feet away.

            [–]YNinja58 8 points9 points ago

            I wash my silver accord (8 years old, 95,000 miles, not one single problem) maybe 3 times a year. Love it love it.

            [–]lazyslacker 5 points6 points ago

            I have a silver 2002 accord. Great car. I seriously can't believe it'll be 10 years old this year. Doesn't feel like it.

            [–]YNinja58 0 points1 point ago

            Mines an 04, and aside from a dent (someone hit & ran, couldn't afford the deductible at the time) its in amazing shape. I hope it lasts me another 10-15, cause iI don't plan on getting rid of it!

            [–]meermeermeer 0 points1 point ago

            I'm still driving my 1995 accord. The odometer broke at 115,000 and I've probably put another 100,000 since.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

            I have an '01 Infiniti G20t, and it looks like a brand new car. I had to convince the registrar at the BMV that it really was an 01 and not like an 05, she thought I was trying to con her to make insurance less expensive lol.

            [–]Cleadus 4 points5 points ago

            I thought you were giving up this life. C'mon, HFDean...

            [–]HyzerFlip 4 points5 points ago

            Had one myself... Best car ever.

            [–]Sarstan -1 points0 points ago

            I'd hope you have no problems with a car that's less than 200k miles.

            [–]weasel-like 2 points3 points ago

            Isn't silver the hardest color to match when it needs work though? I've heard this many times, and rarely see a perfectly matched silver paint repair.

            [–]UnDire 0 points1 point ago

            I also worked on countless vehicles as an auto glass tech and I can verify this. Even under the fluorescent lights, silver looks clean and good.

            [–]SquirrelOnFire 0 points1 point ago

            Silver, hail damaged civic owner here. You really don't see it. What you do see is the paint starting to disappear - some of the deeper hail dings have, after 6 years with unrepaired hail damage (and 13 years of total life), served as starting points for the primer to rear its head.

            But seriously - get a silver car if you don't want to wash it often or repair dings.

            [–][deleted] ago*

            [deleted]

            [–]annfro 2 points3 points ago

            While the Yaris and the Fit are good choices, they are not great when it comes to durability.

            My sister-in-law has had hers in the shop at least twice after running over something on the highway.

            But then I prefer to have a car that is raised up a bit higher.

            [–]AliveInTheFuture 3 points4 points ago

            You need to talk to the highway administration. Geez, twice for running over objects? That is literally death-defying.

            [–]annfro 2 points3 points ago

            Well, it might have something to do with my brother-in-law being the one driving both times... he fails at most things.

            I think it was tire treads coming off of 18 wheelers both times.

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              [–]Sarstan 1 point2 points ago

              For anyone tempted, don't get a hybrid or electric car. Things sound so sexy and cool because you don't have to get gas (as much), but those batteries are NOT cheap and they do lose their ability to charge within a few years, completely offsetting the savings in gas.

              [–]boostedvolvo 8 points9 points ago

              decent fuel mileage and great reliability

              [–]pk386 9 points10 points ago

              That is a BADD Volvo

              [–]ScaryCookieMonster 2 points3 points ago

              It's a Volvo 240, if anyone is interested.

              [–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

              Not just a 240 but a 242.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

              You must get all kinds of ass in that.

              [–]awesomeness1234 0 points1 point ago

              This is the most bad ass vehicle ever.

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                [–]dtrav001 6 points7 points ago*

                Well, if you're serious about this (and I do hope so!) check out POR15, a literally indestructible paint/sealant that, according to them, creates an oxygen-impenetrable coating that stops rust. I've used it for years to seal undercarriage rust repairs, and apparently the stuff is truly eternal.

                Edits: re: "uv-reactive", I've heard that from many people, and they mention it on their site. In the 10+ yrs I've been using this stuff I've noticed almost none of it, but it has been mostly undercarriage. Re: topcoat, you can coat this with anything, but you do need to follow their directions. Re: rust returning, of course, it's rust! I do the rust-repair thing every few years and catch new outbreaks. You'll never stop it, but you can greatly slow its damage down.

                [–]Tokimobile 6 points7 points ago

                If you want it to be eternal you must remove ALL the rust underneath it, otherwise the rust will do its job, you just won't see it. As rolm said, it's UV reactive so you must put an overcoat, but to do so you must use the brand's product because regular primer/paint won't stick to POR-15...

                [–]rodgling 0 points1 point ago

                POR stands for Paint On Rust... so I don't think you do need to remove all the rust, as long as you prep it properly with their wierd undercoat stuff.

                [–]Iguanaforhire 3 points4 points ago

                the stuff is truly eternal.

                It better be, at that price.

                [–]rolm 5 points6 points ago

                I've found it to be UV-reactive. It degrades in sunlight after a few years. Not an issue if you overcoat it, but it also seems to make a crappy basecoat.

                [–]AcceptableLosses 1 point2 points ago

                POR15 isn't as good as POR15's advertisements state. Most of the folks that preach about it are guys that meticulously maintain their vehicles and clean them regularly, or are treating a '56 Chevy Deluxe frame with it before reassembly.

                I've seen more than one Jeep with a POR15'd frame that still developed rust thereafter treatment.

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

                Well, we've never done this before. But seeing as it's special circumstances and all, he says I can knock a hundred dollars off that Trucoat.

                [–]jfb3 12 points13 points ago

                I used to drive a truck that was the color of the dirt/sand in the area. When it got dirty you could hardly tell.

                [–]tasharanee 13 points14 points ago

                Love champagne colored cars. You can never tell they're dirty.

                [–]CassandraVindicated 22 points23 points ago

                For some reason, I'd rather refer to my truck as dirt colored than as champagne colored.

                [–]tasharanee 2 points3 points ago

                I usually told people that my car was beige, but the registration lists champagne as the official color. :)

                [–]reddog093 3 points4 points ago

                Or "Old Man Tan".

                Sorry, I'll get off your lawn :)

                [–]SL8Rfan 2 points3 points ago

                hey, i had a 97 tacoma that blended perfectly with the sand dunes in baja. she was the "champagne menace".

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                  [–]HyzerFlip 2 points3 points ago

                  You also can't see them at dusk or dawn...

                  [–]autophage 2 points3 points ago

                  When I was young, I pestered my father a LOT about why all our cars were such boring colors.

                  Now that I have his '95 Accord, and don' have to bother washing it after they salt the roads in the winter... I get it.

                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

                  am I color blind or is this pretty much silver, maybe with a very slight hue of yellow.

                  [–]tanmccuin 6 points7 points ago

                  I've driven Toyota Tacomas for years - 2WD, decent mileage. Never had a single issue with anything. Just regular maintenance and a new set of tires once in a while. Cannot go wrong with these trunks. Oh and when there's a recall, Toyota's awesome and buys the thing back from you or gives you free maintenance and a new lifetime warantee.

                  Won't win any races or beauty contests but these things are mechanically dead simple, and last forever.

                  [–]clyde_drexler 5 points6 points ago

                  Love love love my '06 Tacoma. Absolutely no problems at all. Everyone who has ever had one tells me you can drive it into the ground and it still may run for a year or two after that. I wish I would have gotten an extended cab though (surprise baby).

                  [–]stalk_of_fennel 3 points4 points ago

                  i like my tacoma as well. nice thing about 4 cylinder engines is they don't tear/torque themselves apart. ever heard of the Toyota War

                  [–]rangerwreck 5 points6 points ago

                  fueleconomy.gov

                  Look up these shit-wagons before you buy one. You'd be surprised at how sucky some cars can be. My vote is for a 4 banger mini-truck:

                  1988: Ford Ranger 2.3L 4x4: 19mpg city/24mpg highway Toyota 2.4L 4x4: 18 city/22 highway Ranger 2.3L 2WD: 21 city/26highway

                  While the Toyotas are good, IMHO the Rangers are much better. With the S-10s of same vintage taking third place.

                  It's easier and cheaper to get parts for the Ranger. Their frames don't rust in half, and the wiring makes sense and doesn't light on fire.

                  edit: reddit formatting. I have been here how long, and never bothered to figure it out. screw it.

                  [–]Mr_You[!] 9 points10 points ago

                  Its already been mentioned, but I'll state it again for emphasis. You want a silver car or truck. Honda or Toyota. Start at around 60k miles and you'll get a good looking but cheap car/truck that should last to 200k with regular maintenance. Silver is one of the most popular colors so there should be plenty to choose from.

                  [–]TheRonMan 2 points3 points ago

                  200k? My Honda is over 300k and still running great.

                  [–]Pxtl -1 points0 points ago

                  Go beyond silver. Some Pontiac Vibes (rebranded Toyota Matrix) have matte plastic cladding along the bottom. That stuff just plain doesn't show scrapes.

                  [–]UhOhPoopedIt 37 points38 points ago

                  Find a 4.0L manual transmission Jeep Cherokee and have it painted with bedliner. You'll have a vehicle with an indestructable engine and a body that don't give a fuck. I still wish I had my Cherokee.

                  [–]rawcaret 52 points53 points ago

                  12 mpg or worse if you add the weight of spray-on bedliner

                  [–]NiceGunMrBurton 14 points15 points ago

                  That ^ is why I do not still have my Cherokee. Otherwise it was a great mad max vehicle to build on.

                  [–]Aarmed 12 points13 points ago

                  The letter c in your username?

                  [–]NiceGunMrBurton 28 points29 points ago

                  Exactly, that and the 12 mpg thing made me sell it. Mostly the c though.

                  [–][deleted] ago

                  [deleted]

                  [–]NoKWolf 4 points5 points ago

                  I guess he drove it into the ocean?

                  load more comments (6 replies)

                    [–]mcwilshire 10 points11 points ago

                    Eight pounds of Herculiner should cover about 50 square feet. It's not that much of a difference.

                    [–]fuzzo 12 points13 points ago

                    it's not we weight, it's the drag.

                    [–]bhal123 6 points7 points ago

                    Actually, the pebbled surface might improve efficiency ala golf ball dimples. Not sure either way but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility.

                    [–]nateener 4 points5 points ago

                    Unless your car is spinning and flipping through the air, it won't.

                    [–]barryicide 12 points13 points ago

                    Wrong - watch this: http://www.yourdiscovery.com/video/mythbusters-dimpled-car/

                    [–]LongUsername 2 points3 points ago

                    They seem to like bedliner on Mythbusters- this may be one for submission- combo of "Golf Ball Car" and "Is Bedliner Indestructible?"

                    [–]rawcaret 0 points1 point ago

                    Good to know.

                    [–]RichardBachman 6 points7 points ago

                    I shopped around for one of these in the late 90's. Popular opinion seemed to be that if you bought one with more than 50,000 miles that never had the main seal replaced, be prepared to replace it soon.

                    [–]NotANinja 8 points9 points ago*

                    Jeeps in general break ALL THE TIME, but are among the easiest of vehicles to fix. So, if you have the tools to do the work, maintenance costs are unbeatable.

                    EDIT: By unbeatable I mean you can't keep another car running better, longer, or at a lower cost.

                    [–]JeepChick 4 points5 points ago

                    i'm gonna have to disagree as well. on the contrary, i think they are one of the most reliable on the road.

                    if you know how to turn a wrench and are conscientious about upkeep and maintenance they will run damn near forever.

                    how many wranglers do you ever see on the side of the road?

                    [–]NotANinja 2 points3 points ago

                    How is that disagreement with:

                    ...among the easiest of vehicles to fix. So, if you have the tools to do the work, maintenance costs are unbeatable.

                    [–]JeepChick 2 points3 points ago

                    i disagree that they break all the time...besides, this is the internet & so we have to argue about something right?

                    [–]NotANinja 2 points3 points ago

                    I disagree with your need to argue. This is reddit where we must agree with the hive mind at all times, no room for varying opinions!

                    [–]hidigidy42 1 point2 points ago

                    I'm gunna have to go ahead and disagree with you there. Ran my 4.0 cherokee up to 230,000 miles before the engine finally caved.

                    load more comments (5 replies)

                      [–]UhOhPoopedIt 8 points9 points ago

                      Still fits the bill. Never promised good gas milage. Just a vehicle that wont die.

                      [–]CaptLudwig 10 points11 points ago

                      I can't imagine how this mentality could fly in this subreddit.

                      [–]nateener 6 points7 points ago

                      depends. you have to think about how much you'll save on car repairs vs. how much more you'll spend on gas. Is it worth paying more for gas if you get to hang on to the same car for 2,3,4 more years? On top of that, you may be able to improve your mpgs by hypermilling. Granted, I'm to lazy to look up any details or do math, so I could be talking out of my ass.

                      load more comments (1 reply)

                        [–]cathartica 0 points1 point ago

                        So it will take you slightly more than 8 gallons of gas to go 100 miles. Jesus. In Chicago, that's $28.

                        If you go down to 11mpg, it takes you 9 gallons.... That's not the range you want to be in.

                        [–]reddit-mandingo 1 point2 points ago

                        Man do those things get shitty mileage. 4.0L. 185hp. barely over 3000lb curb weight. Yet... 15mpg combined average. My 5200 lb WK2 with a 5.7L Hemi does better.

                        [–]patpend 7 points8 points ago

                        I knew a Jeep dealership mechanic. I took my wife's car into have some warranty work done. I looked at all of the Cherokees up on lifts in the dealership's garage. I said "Looks like it's Jeep Cherokee day." He replied "Every day is Jeep Cherokee day."

                        [–]kbuck2000 3 points4 points ago*

                        I'm on my second Cherokee. The first was a 1994 sport model. It lasted 230,000 mikes before rust consumed it. The engine still ran strong. I only replaced the usual stuff - coolant components, exhaust, brakes, etc.

                        The second is a 1997 Grand Cherokee. There is little rust on it, though I did just replace the rocker panels. It has 205,000 miles on it and still goes strong. Four years ago my wife hit a deer and I replaced the front end - everything from the radiator forward. I found a used 1995 Cherokee for free and swapped parts. A week later a guy blew a red light, hit the front end, and totalled it. I welded in a new piece of frame and rebuilt the front end again. It still drives like a dream.

                        both cars have 6 cylinder 4.0L engines

                        edit - just want to add that I routinely haul 1000 lbs of wood pellets in the Cherokee. It weighs the vehicle down a bit but I can climb hills no problem.

                        [–]AcceptableLosses 2 points3 points ago

                        I've done up a lot of XJ's, and my chief complaint (and why I'll NEVER own one) is this: Rust. You cannot stop them from rusting. Chrysler did a shit job of assembling them, the undercoating is usually haphazardly applied, there is no seam sealer, and they are pretty much built to rot out if you live in a salt state. Other than that, great fucking trucks.

                        At least they galvanized the TJ tub.

                        [–]AliveInTheFuture 3 points4 points ago

                        Indestructible my ass. I know someone who owned almost nothing but Cherokees, have no idea why they kept buying them. Every single one of them had vacuum system issues, among other things.

                        [–]AcceptableLosses 1 point2 points ago

                        The Aisin AW4 automagic is much longer-lived than the AX-15 manual, for the record.

                        [–]UnDire 1 point2 points ago

                        I know two people who would refute this. My mom had a Cherokee and had nothing but problems from day one, until she (quickly) got rid of it. She got Toyota Four-Runner and has driven it for 10 years now and still loves it.

                        [–]StuffMaster 2 points3 points ago

                        It's hard to like Jeep after reading Consumer Reports.

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

                        Love Jeep, trying to get one now and not spend 15-20k damn it's hard to find an affordable Jeep.

                        Cheapest I've found was 12k and that had 76k miles on it.

                        [–]Vandilbg 0 points1 point ago

                        Hate my jeep but it's the best thing to drive in 2ft of snow.

                        [–]coolitsember 0 points1 point ago

                        Fuck it. Get a Wrangler. Pre-1996 if you can. Full cage roll-bar and original suspension.

                        load more comments (3 replies)

                          [–]spoonraker 4 points5 points ago

                          You must be abusing the hell out of your car if you can turn it from a "regular shiny car" to a "rusted out shitbox" within any relatively short period of time.

                          Unless by "eventually" you mean something like 50+ years, in which case there is no car on earth that won't look like crap after 50 years if you don't maintain it.

                          Otherwise, I think the solution to your problem is to just stop caring about how your car looks. You can't have a pretty looking car that you never ever wash or look after. That's just the unfortunate truth of it.

                          Just buy yourself a cheap beater that gets you from A to B and don't worry about rust and door dings and shit like that.

                          [–]SL8Rfan 2 points3 points ago

                          or the op lives on the coast. i had a beauty of a tacoma that rusted out quick as hell when i moved coastal.

                          [–]spoonraker 1 point2 points ago

                          How long did it take it to rust? And was the truck new when you bought it? I suspect there was already rust forming it just hadn't effected the paint yet so you didn't notice it.

                          I know some regions are worse than others, but most people will sell a car long before they ever see any rust if the car truly was rust free when they bought it. And if you put even the slightest bit of effort into keeping your car somewhat clean the rust process should take ages, not just a couple years. I live in Nebraska where we get plenty of humidity and nasty winters with plenty of road salt and I know for a fact you can keep a car rust free for a looooong time if you're looking after it.

                          Now, I'm not necessarily saying you or the OP are lazy, some people just don't care about their cars and there is nothing wrong with that, but if you keep a car outside 24/7 with no protection and don't bother to wash it every now and then you can't really complain about rust now can you? Just buy cheap cars.

                          [–]SL8Rfan 2 points3 points ago

                          the truck was new when i bought it, i kept it meticulously clean and mechanically perfect (ish). i would offroad on fire trails and do alot of long distance driving. I believe it all started with being rear ended and a bumper push that pushed into the rear quarter panel...slightly. the rust from rock chips and this tiny dent spread quickly under the paint. also, lots of beach driving led to undercarriage rust that i had no control over. i've since learned about undercoating (DUH). it was a quick process...over about two years the truck went from sexy to messy. sold it soon thereafter to a guy who wanted to refurbish it. good on him. since you live in nebraska, i wouldn't expect you to even begin to be able to fathom what coastal salt air does to a vehicle. although i've been to nebraska and you guys salt the heck out of the roads! beautiful there though.

                          load more comments (2 replies)

                            [–]livetoride 3 points4 points ago

                            Once my paint on my element gets ruined enough I will be painting all the lower sections with Rhino-liner. Its kind of expensive though.

                            [–]HighInsights 1 point2 points ago

                            Nobody gives a fuck what an Element looks like, and half the panels are plastic anyway.

                            Fuckin' love mine. :)

                            [–][deleted] 7 points8 points ago

                            Toyota Hilux? Those things don't die.

                            [–]rawcaret 1 point2 points ago

                            Many (I hope most) new cars are painted using new methods of anodizing and priming that cover every surface of every piece of the car. Volkswagen has a 12 year, unlimited mile warranty (last time I checked) that covers any corrosion on their vehicles. I assume other manufacturers have similar guarantees.

                            Beyond that, silver is a good color that won't look terrible when it's dirty, in my opinion, but if you never clean your car you might want to think about why you're getting rust. I live in MA and once every couple of weeks during the winter I make sure to do an undercarriage wash at an automated car wash to clean the salt off. Just doing that will add lots of time to the life of your car's body.

                            [–]100uf 1 point2 points ago

                            I haven't really seen rust on most modern cars the way you would on, say, a 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I think that most manufacturers have realized "Hey! This thing could be sold north of the 40th parallel!" The hyundai sonata commercials used to show the carriage getting hot dip galvanized.

                            [–]Lothrazar 3 points4 points ago

                            Get an old volvo, they look GOOD dirty, plus utility is what they are made of. I love my 96 volvo 850, older ones are also good.

                            [–]zeroair 6 points7 points ago

                            Someone over in /r/subaru recently painted their car with bed liner. link

                            Also I would like to throw in the recommendation of a Subaru for your needs.... They are made for what you are describing, whether you bedliner them or not!

                            [–]tgeliot 2 points3 points ago

                            Just buy an old car.

                            [–]Willie_Main 2 points3 points ago

                            I've got a black Hyundai Elantra and it has been, thus far, the best purchase I've ever made. Great gas mileage, reliable in all conditions and very low maintenance.

                            I recently noticed a small patch of rust near the back on the driver's side where the back panel meets the bumper. I think it's amazing that I've had the car nearly 7 years (and it's an 02) and it is just now rusting. I think that's impressive for a stereotypically "cheap" car.

                            [–]TheLoneHoot 0 points1 point ago

                            20+ years of ownership/experience tells my you should get an early '90s Subaru Loyale wagon. AWD, super reliable and if something does break, super easy to work on. They can go anywhere and can haul a suprising amount of "stuff". Also, really good mileage - like ~30mpg!

                            Biggest bonus mechanically? They have "non-interference" engines - if a timing belt every breaks that's ALL you replace. On most cars you end up rebuilding or replacing the engine!

                            [–]ScaryCookieMonster 3 points4 points ago

                            Most cars these days have non-interference engines.

                            [–][deleted] ago

                            [deleted]

                            [–]Edgar_Allan_Rich 0 points1 point ago

                            I saw a car covered in spray-on bed liner. It was ugly as sin and probably not very aerodynamic, but whatever.

                            What I want is hybrid mini-truck, but they make too much sense to actually exist.

                            [–]UnDire 0 points1 point ago

                            With regular maintenance, modern cars can last a long, long time. Wash it every two weeks, get regular oil changes and maintenance, respond to problems and you'll be good.

                            I drive a 2006 Scion Xb (box) and love its utility.

                            [–]aliasforspam 1 point2 points ago

                            Who washes their car anymore? Automotive finishes are so amazing, I haven't washed a car in 5 years and they look brand new. Plus there are no swirl marks!

                            [–]CuilRunnings 0 points1 point ago

                            Toyota Camry has the highest resale value.

                            [–]aluminaplus 0 points1 point ago

                            Pick your car, whatever it is, find Herculiner, bedliner, Rapto-liner, even the color-matched type, and have applied all over said car. It seems thats what you're looking for, not a new car.

                            The jeep guys do it in black or color-matched interior as floor-liner all the time. Many people, jeeps/trucks/4x4s mostly do it on the exterior too with success if applied right.

                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

                            Hilux

                            [–]cathartica 0 points1 point ago

                            I had an 89 volvo 740gl wagon, and that thing was the most bitchin car. Wasn't rusting anywhere except the mount for the passenger side mirror. Rust isn't even the right word, it was aluminum or something, so it sortof corroded a little, and the paint fell off, and then it stopped corroding. I live in Chicago, where we salt the streets more than it snows, so anything that can survive 20 winters without rust is a miracle.

                            [–]yeropinionman 0 points1 point ago

                            Subaru impreza.

                            • All wheel drive

                            • Hatch back = utility without the bad mpg of a truck

                            • Being dirty is part of its look. People will assume you're just outdoorsy.

                            [–]guisar 0 points1 point ago

                            I'm going to recommend a subaru legacy or forester. The 3rd gen ones are super cheap, easy to work on, have a HUGE aftermarket contingent and are four wheel drive. They are about as far from an image car as you can get....

                            [–]guyanonymous 0 points1 point ago

                            I always wanted to powdercoat my entire car so that I could forget about it.

                            [–]Ben_Wojdyla 2 points3 points ago

                            You can not. Powder coating requires a baking cycle, which means your entire vehicle would have to go into an oven.

                            [–]daddyman 1 point2 points ago

                            Buy a Honda Element, and get a truck bed-liner paint job.

                            [–]Sporkman 0 points1 point ago

                            Get a durable vehicle (80s Toyota truck?) And spray it with Plasti-dip? It's popular to do with rims because it's cheap, sticks well, if you get a nick you can just spray some more on.

                            [–]jimibulgin 0 points1 point ago

                            The shiny paint jobs are actually there to protect the underlining metal from rusting. More about function than form. Kinda like painting a barn.

                            [–]freedumb23 1 point2 points ago

                            Thats exactly what I'm looking for too. do they make a purely utility vehicle? No cup holders and other useless shit. Something to just take me from A. to B.

                            [–]Ben_Wojdyla 0 points1 point ago

                            I have a lot of cars (way too many, some way too fancy) but while most of them sit, my daily driver is a 2001 F150 with a V6 and a manual transmission. It's paint is ugly, it has dents, the bed is a little rusty, it has rubber floors and roll down windows.

                            It's a great vehicle.

                            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point ago

                            If they made a car like that (even though I know they can make a car like this) they'd probably kill whoever made it out of fear of disturbing the profit flow of their endless market for car parts/paint/etc.

                            [–]Findmodestanswer 0 points1 point ago

                            Two words. Rhino liner. Just cover your car in that shit and it'll be amaizing

                            [–]MilhoVerde -1 points0 points ago

                            I'd say a Toyota Hilux would be a great choice. It's Top Gear's favorite rugged car. Here's the reason:

                            Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTPnIpjodA8&feature=fvwrel Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFnVZXQD5_k&feature=fvwrel

                            [–]IronSlanginRed 0 points1 point ago

                            This is possible. You can have your entire car sandblasted and coated with a spray-on bedliner material. I've witnessed it done on several jeeps and other 4x4's where rust and dents are an issue. It will last nearly forever, atleast much longer than a paint job..

                            [–]shah_reza 1 point2 points ago

                            Extraordinarily coincidental. I was just pondering this idea a couple days ago, stuck in traffic.

                            In the perpetual struggle between form and function when it comes to auto design, what would happen if a designer slid the scale completely over to 100% function?

                            I'd be interested. Off the top of my head, the closest I can think of is a VW Thing, a Land Rover Defender... but even in these examples, it's maybe 60/40, in favor of function. I want to know what the extreme would be... and then I'd buy that fucker.

                            [–]jasonofcompsci 1 point2 points ago

                            A friend of mine painted his with tractor paint. Keep in mind this people are pretty stupid.

                            [–]iamcam 0 points1 point ago

                            JEEP WRANGLER!!!

                            [–]RosieMuffysticks 0 points1 point ago

                            What is wrong with a rusted-out shitbox, as long as it runs and is paid for? Insurance is dirt cheap with just such a vehicle.

                            [–]Sarstan 0 points1 point ago

                            Just make sure you wax your car. It's not hard at all, especially when many car washes offer it anyway if you're too lazy to do it yourself. Not waxing your car is one of the best ways to watch that clear coat peel off.

                            [–]Nsekiil 1 point2 points ago

                            you need a 1985-90 toyota tercel 4wd hatchback. i got mine for 800 bucks at 230,000 mi and its been great, i drive it up to mt hood just about every weekend, it does great in the snow.

                            [–]rcmaniac 0 points1 point ago

                            I'm the opposite. I love washing & keeping my car looking brand new and shiny. It kind of shows that you take care of the rest of the car too. I keep up on the maintenance and anything that needs to be fixed. Just a pride thing for me. Only because I find joy in doing so.

                            [–]hsfrey 0 points1 point ago

                            Stop worrying about keeping it looking nice!

                            Problem solved!

                            [–]GiantTurtleHat 0 points1 point ago

                            lol car covered with black rubberized sealant would look like shit.

                            [–]Mikul 0 points1 point ago

                            Do not live near the coast.

                            [–]lurkerinmyheart 0 points1 point ago

                            Old cars can be expensive

                            [–]my_cat_joe 0 points1 point ago

                            Get an old Jeep. There's not too many cars which you can just hose out the inside of.

                            [–]AgentFoxMulder 1 point2 points ago

                            The DeLorean is made of stainless steel, so you shouldnt have problems with rust.

                            [–]miss_j_bean 1 point2 points ago

                            A friend coated his whole truck in bed-liner. Not to make it crash-proof (as was demonstrated on mythbusters to not work) but because it's relatively ding-proof and rust proof (we live in the great white north where everything is rusty). It's been at least 6 years and it looks great.

                            [–]wmurray003 -1 points0 points ago

                            http://picfind2.bloguez.com/picfind2/1662870/trabant-tuning

                            [–]fatjesus 0 points1 point ago

                            If you live in a metropolitan area consider joining a car co-op. I've recently joined Car2Go and it's awesome. It's $0.39/minute or $12.99/hour and in certain situations can be cheaper than public transit.

                            [–]ezmobee 0 points1 point ago

                            Got a 2012 Ford Fusion. WEEK 1 took a rock to the hood on the highway. FML.

                            load more comments (41 replies)

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